UKIP Daily readers and callers to Lexdrum House, are a self-selecting group. As any pollster will tell you, such a sample is an unreliable guide as to how an electorate will vote. While it is encouraging to see support on UKIP Daily (and its ally Kipper Central) for getting rid of Bolton we cannot assume that will be a majority view at the EGM (though I very much hope it will be).
Bolton has access to the entire membership database and is using it to promote his new constitution and anti-NEC website. We can assume, therefore, that more members will have seen his case than have seen the critique of the many flaws in his proposed constitution or in his denunciations of the NEC. There will be a faction chanting ‘four legs good, two legs bad’ (see here) but some of them may yet be woken from their slumber by a clear exposé of Bolton’s power grab. Unaccountable power should send shivers down the spine of any kipper.
I hope, therefore, that whoever speaks for the NEC (and the pre-selected few from the floor) does not assume everyone has read UKIP Daily, studied the articles and comments, and merely needs a quick reminder of the compelling reasons for getting rid of Bolton. Rather, they must argue de novo. There might usefully be some co-ordination between the speakers on our side – you cover this, I’ll cover that – so that Bolton’s case is dismantled in a tsunami of the most probative points.
Few members appear to have read the existing constitution, so we cannot assume the new one will have been studied by all attending nor that they see what we see. Yet, it is so revealing of Bolton’s mindset and ambitions for himself and so opaque as to how it actually solves any of the party’s problems, assuming anyone goes along with blaming the NEC for anything, that it needs to feature in the statement of reasons for why we should vote to support the no-confidence vote, notwithstanding its post hoc character as a reason for the NEC’s vote.
I took my quote `four legs good, two legs bad’ from George Orwell’s Animal Farm. Recall that the pigs, Napoleon and Snowball, would address the animals from time to time and that when Snowball spoke he moved his tail from side to side in a manner that “was somehow very persuasive”. It will be Napoleon himself who will be speaking in Birmingham and he will be trying to be “somehow very persuasive” and with whatever equivalent he can come up with to moving his tale from side to side. Some members have already found him very persuasive.
So, our side’s speakers really do have to go for broke, take nothing for granted and, unlike Bolton and his fellow piggies, pay members the compliment of treating them as capable adults but, the stakes being so high, a bit of persuasive tail wagging should be adopted whenever possible by our side. Gerard Batten needs to be there and highly visible. Nothing need be said by or about him but the symbolism of his presence needs to be very visible. Very visible indeed.
I do not believe that structural, constitutional reform is needed at all. Even if that were desirable in some way it must be way down the list of our policy light, directionless party’s priorities. I prefer an elected NEC as the party’s governing body. Yes, people with particular aptitudes might usefully be employed in the party and there may be a time again when the party has the money for that. For now, though, there is just one change that is needed.
Our MPs vote in public. There are no secret ballots. As elected representatives we are entitled to know how our MPs vote on everything from the gas mains enabling bill to the Lisbon Treaty to the Great Repeal Bill. There are websites dedicated to reporting how MPs vote. That we can know how our MPs vote is one of the defining features of representative democracy.
The few NEC minutes released to date are about dreary housekeeping matters. What I want to know is how each NEC member votes. Who was for and who against Anne Marie Waters standing in the 2017 GE? Who for and against her standing in the leadership election? It is these voting records that need to be made available to members. It will `connect’ the NEC members with ordinary members for being the crucial information we need about them when deciding to re-elect them or not. It may also modify voting behaviour if how each NEC member votes is no longer a party secret.
I know if my MP represents me by the way he votes. If the NEC represents us, as they now claim to do, then I need to see how they each vote. No constitutional reform is needed for this, just a decision by the NEC to release data on who voted which way on what. This will end much of the carping about the NEC.
If the NEC are serious about representing us, if they want to build on the connection with members that Bolton has provoked, then they need to do this – and tell us who votes against it!
So anyone who supports Henry is a “piggie”. Don’t be surprised if you get a few oink oinks when the NEC present their case.
Your comment only goes to divide the party. I suppose supporters of the NEC must be lions or should that be – Lennies
It was George Orwell who likened dictators to pigs.
The party is divided because Henry decided not to resign.
Freddy,
Do you have any idea what Nigel is up to and why he avidly supports Henry, is it just that he dislikes Batten so much or do you think there is more behind it than that? I just cannot vote for someone I despise that’s all.
I do not think this is much to do with Gerard Batten; the plan predates that. However, Nigel may view Gerard as an exacerbating factor.
Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. In that vein:
Nigel wants a party unfettered by an NEC, or a party destroyed to make way for a phoenix.
Like Churchill, my teacher, Nigel needs to makes sure he is not around when the deed is done (as Churchill absented himself while Chamberlain was defenestrated in Parliament).
So, Nigel needs an agent, a man accustomed to implementing orders, without too much questioning.
Nigel finds such a man.
My younger brother Sherlock is a mere professional. I’m an amateur.
Draining the swamp, appears to mean overpower and dominate the NEC. The rushed out draft constitution also appears to be a power grab and will be thrown out by members once the clauses are debated in my opinion.
If HB is confirmed as leader, I would immediately join any UKIP group trying to boot him out. I value UKIP more than I value him.
The quantity of posts hostile to Bolton on UKIP Daily and Kipper central has been quite amazing. First we had a load of posts questioning everything on his CV and claiming that the press was about to blow the lid on it. That didn’t happen because even our ghastly tabloid press check the basic facts before printing their biased propaganda. Now that Bolton has published his reform constitution we get another tidal wave of venom about that. Most of the attack comes from the NEC, the remaining failed leadership candidates and their supporters. Their criticisms are without substance. In fact the best complaints they have come up with are that the draft constitution is too well presented and without enough “feeling.” seriously?
If Bolton loses the anti-Islam protagonists will come in by the back door. Only a minority will ever vote for a party with even the smallest hint of anti-islam policy in its manifesto. The party with its unique aims to ensure a sound Brexit and proper immigration controls will be lost. You can moan about political correctness all you want. That is the reality.
If Bolton wins there is still hope for UKIP, but the going will be tough. The people who want to change UKIP into a different party will not easily give up. In my opinion they should then pledge allegiance to the confirmed leader or get out. The proposed constitution is not perfect but it is a good draft for a consultation. Add in some much needed voting reform and it will look even better. If the NEC refuse to support a proper consultation process as they are now tacitly threatening to do, then the only remaining option will be to form a new party from scratch losing the UKIP brand.
What will happen tomorrow is anyone guess. The leadership contest showed a marked difference between what the bulk of the membership want and what its active hierarchy want. I think if there were a postal ballot Bolton would win. The unjustified attacks against him from within have made the real situation much clearer to the real Yeomen than it was in December and I think this would work in Bolton’s favour. However, an EGM requiring everyone to make a long journey is another matter.
I do not find the quantity of posts critical of Bolton “amazing” but it is certainly encouraging.
The press appear to have lost interest in Bolton. A joke can be repeated only so many times. That natural resistance to boredom is not evidence of fact checking.
The proposed constitution concentrates power in the leader. That is not a criticism without “substance”.
I used to think I was good at seeing things from other people’s point of view, but now I begin to wonder. You seem to have everything back to front.
For example “Most of the attack comes from the NEC, the remaining failed leadership candidates and their supporters. Their criticisms are without substance.” Frankly, no, unless you redundantly classify all opponents of Henry, however reluctant, as “supporters of the NEC and failed leadership candidates”. (See how divisive Henry Bolton is!) The opposite seems to be true. Henry’s support is largely sycophantic and insubstantial. For example, I don’t think I’ve heard a single thing to substantiate Henry’s criticism of the NEC, and the Bolton proposals for constitutional change seem to be mostly to increase his personal power. And opposition to Henry in my own branch is overwhelming, not to mention the ex-members who now think of UKIP as a laughing stock. He needs to go tomorrow. He needed to go in January.
Incidentally, on 22 January he asserted that he would focus on fighting for Brexit in the weeks to come (i.e. the four weeks now past). What of that? Nothing. His priority, as always, has been in preserving his own position.
Oops. That was a reply to Philip, not Stout Yeoman.
And a good reply!
Phillip I agree with you. I voted for Henry Bolton for leader after reading what the other candidates had to offer. I have been to his website and I hope others have done so. There are many members of the public who voted UKIP and who now think that since we are leaving the EU the job is done.
> If Bolton loses the anti-Islam protagonists will come in by the back door
In the light of the young lady’s chatter, that is quite an amusing assertion!
I assure you that your fears are unjustified. While UKIP must not duck the issue of the demographic change assailing the UK, it must not be seen as an anti-Islam party either. If others find this a troublesome tightrope to walk, I don’t.
So the Remainers have got their second referendum but are still not happy The vitriolic and hateful attacks by some in here will not be forgotten. UKIP was in a mess way before any of you sichophants new of Bolton. Your envy frustration with your own failings are very transparent.
Barrie,
I am not vitriolic or hateful towards Henry, I just think he is a rubbish leader.
Personally I don’t know enough about army/police procedures to know the truth about the various allegations.
I do know that most Ukippers are of an age when abandoning your wife and child is considered to be an extremely bad thing.
It shows selfishness and mental instability.
And usually ends in disaster for all concerned.
The EGM vote is about who gets to own the brand and the party machine of UKIP.
If the NEC win, then UKIP becomes a permanent side-show, banging on about Islam (about which there are real issues) but crucially, losing the argument every time, because of a lack of nuance and popular appeal.
If the NEC win, then Banks et al have a tougher job, because they need to build a new party machine based on the technology Leave.eu. So the Brexit/small government cause is divided and set back.
If the NEC lose, then we remain a unified force and Banks et al get a leg-up by having the UKIP brand and machine to leverage in developing a responsive, modern party with Farage behind the scenes.
I want Farage to be in charge of the party machinery. In six months, Bolton can be eliminated if need be.
I will vote against the NEC.
A crucial flaw in your reasoning is “If the NEC lose, then we remain a unified force”.
> I will vote against the NEC.
Oh no, you won’t.
You are confused about what is being voted for, and what can possibly result from each of the outcomes.
> Oh no, you won’t.
Correct! With Farage backing Bolton explicitly yesterday, the vote is now about Farage.
I will be backing Farage tomorrow.
Why? Because it’s Nigel Farage?
(Obviously not, because you had already declared for Henry Bolton. But don’t you think it’s time for UKIP to grow up, to show that it’s bigger than one man?)
Initially I called for Bolton’s head.
Then I read the constitution and realised that this was an opportunity to evict the ambitious NEC and effect vital constitutional reform.
So decided to vote against the NEC.
Then Farage backed Bolton, meaning that if Bolton loses, Farage’s position in UKIP is untenable.
So I now have two reasons for voting for Bolton: constitutional reform and keeping Farage from having to form a competitor party with Banks.
Reply to Ben, below:
That’s interesting. I have travelled the other way. I was at first against another leadership election, recognising that it would be damaging to UKIP, but changed my mind, largely because of Henry Bolton’s lack of political competence, confirmed by his mismanagement of the current situation. I think it’s vital to UKIP’s future that he should go.
I don’t recognise the characterisation of the NEC as “ambitious”. What do you mean?
I do consider Henry’s proposed changes to the constitution very damaging. I think I’ve seen them described as a “power grab”. I think that’ fair, and I think it would be in character.
All this is very sad. Although I didn’t vote for Henry in the leadership election I was relieved at his election and stood for election as branch chairman at our AGM a fortnight later, thinking that, although he hadn’t inspired me to vote for him, at least he was a safe pair of hands behind which the party could unite. How wrong I was!
Ben,
I don’t understand where you get this thing about ‘banging on about islam’, I just don’t see it myself. The whole idea as I see it is not to become a single issue party as we have been in the past, of course, brexit is high on our agenda but there are many other topics we can cover, and islam may be a small part of it. After all, we have AMW’s to carry that torch from now on.
Gerard Batten labelled Islam a “death cult” and asked for Muslims to sign a code of conduct. Nuanced rhetoric from the bookies favourite for interim leader!
If Farage loses tomorrow, then he leaves, UKIP will continue, probably for years, but as a minor, party, delivering angry, overplayed rhetoric, with a tiny base.
> The EGM vote is about who gets to own the brand and the party machine of UKIP.
If we’re not careful, and perhaps even if we are, it may be the Labour Party. Do google for HQ14D04882, which I believe has reached its penultimate incarnation.
I do hope Patrick O’Flynn MEP will be at the EGM, especially after his strong support for the incumbent (see https://independencedaily.co.uk/on-balance ), and his bona fide rhetorical skills.
Those who fail to see what connects the two paragraphs above are missing out a lot.
I must yet again remind posters that the word limit for comment posts is 400 words.
In recent days, supporters of Henry Bolton have posted comments of excessive length (from well over 600 to nearly 800 words) which have been binned.
Supporters of Bolton have accused UKIP Daily of bias and corruption. It would have been a good idea for them to read the advice for contributors and keep to the prescribed limits.
As far as I’m concerned – if keeping the rules everybody is striving to adhere to is = bias, then so be it.
Henry Bolton should be holding Theresa May’s feet to the fire. From across the Pond he looks like a plant. Sorry if that offends but I have been around UKIP since the days of Dr Sked and trying to manage UKIP is like trying to herd cats, given the party is one for individuals rather than Droids or Lumpen which gravitate to one of the main parties and never dissemble. But his job is to expose the perfidy and useless nature of Mrs May. Henry Bolton emailed me as I am a member which prompted this response. I find it very disturbing that he wants to change the Constitution and is telling people prior to the EGM as though he takes it for granted that he is to be kept. I live in the US and am an overseas voter but were I to be at the meeting I would vote for UKIP to rid itself of this man who is unlike anyone I can recall as regards his seeming distance from real issues and his disconnect from UKIP’s message. The brutal truth is UKIP will never form a Government but it could certainly bring Governments down and hold them to account. Henry Bolton seems to want to hold onto his girlfriend and his office. Please remove him as his retention will decimate the Membership.
FYI – I am a past Constituency Chairman for Dorset North and have fought the European “Project” since 1992. I Brexited with my children in 2012.
There was a vote taken by Kent branches about 4 weeks ago at the county meeting and there was a majority in favour of Henry Bolton resigning the leadership of the party. There was then a much more organised vote taken and this resulted as I understand it, in an overwhelming majority of branches voting that he should resign his leadership.
Head Office/the NEC believed in the early stages, and based on their inboxes and calls to Lexdrum House, that Bolton would be overwhelmingly crushed at the EGM with just his Kent heartland remaining loyal.
It is rumoured that registrations have nearly doubled in the past week, a week that has seen Bolton’s personal campaign website be pushed out to all members. In the early stages it was, possibly, 80:20 in support of the NEC. What if it has been 80:20 in support of Bolton this past week? If the number of registrations has doubled in a week and the proportions reversed then the vote will be very close indeed. Those of us who wish Bolton gone were energised early on. It has taken a while but it is the pro-Bolton campaign that has been cranking up lately. Have we been overtaken in the final furlong with a late charge? I do not rule it out at all.
Will member N Farage be attending? If he thinks Bolton would be crushed then no. But if he believes Bolton has a real chance then ….
We may look back one day and see there were only two truly key moments in the party’s history: Farage stepping down (for the last time) and an EGM 18 months later that finally dealt with the consequences but split the party hopelessly. In the blue corner Bolton and his second Farage. In the red corner Crowther (?) and his second Batten. ( A pity `grid’ girls are now out of fashion – we could have had a scantily clad Jo Marney walking around with a round 1 placard etc)
Jo Marney. Never knowingly overdressed.
> a scantily clad Jo Marney walking around with a round 1 placard
… three or four rather small ones would surely be more revealing? What a shame you’re not on the NEC, Yeoman, else you could poll the (Interim) Party Chairman/Leader for his opinions on this procedural matter.
To other correspondents, here, on KC, on social media – please let’s not lose sight of the fact that real people, with real feelings and emotions, are involved. Things are seldom as black or white as they are painted to be. Cardboard cutouts and comic-book villains are for kids.
To most, perceived extremism is a turn-off.
With a nom-de-plume, how do we know he’s NOT on the nec? 😉
“He”, as all yeomen must be, is not on the NEC.
Read with insight.
“’nuff said,” as is frequently stated here.
The leader’s recent email to members shows where IMHO his priorities lie, with himself.
The leader knew there wasn’t a salary when he stood as a leadership candidate, yet he’s been touring the branches, at the party’s expense, collecting thousands as he passes GO. He’s refused to step down, even as he continues to makes the party a ‘laughing stock’ by telling the media of (i) his ongoing ‘feelings’ for his ‘girlfriend’ (who the media now regularly tag as a ‘racist’), (ii) that it’s losing money and members and (iii) that he’s quite good at badger strangling!
Some weeks ago the leader announced via the media that a relationship with his girlfriend is incompatible with him being leader, so why hasn’t he resigned as very few people believe the leader’s not in a relationship with her?
The leader wants to impose on the party a new constitution that Kim Jong il of North Korea would be proud of. UKIP is a libertarian party not a dictatorial one. The leader’s draft constitution concentrates all power & patronage in his hands, giving him the power to hire and fire all party officers, employees and volunteers (and no doubt approve or veto all election candidates). The leader wants a constitution that, bizarrely for a constitutional document enshrines in it a salary for the leader (and only the leader), one that they can probably set via their appointees.
What we have before us appears to be a leader not really interested in the core values of UKIP (their draft constitution sets UKIP on a course to become like the Lib Dems, who no doubt the leader feels more at a home with) and a leader, who many members upon reading his draft constitution may conclude wants to accrue power and monetary benefits. Is this why the leader has refused to resign, even when the NEC, the majority of his hand picked cabinet, the Assembly Members and most of the party’s MEPs have told him to go?
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The hurdy-gurdy man cranking out more of the same old same old. The tune is wearing thin. You have more to answer for than a questionable choice of partner.
Give it a rest man, and make plans for your retirement for surely you will be one of the first to go early next week
That’s wholly uncalled for, “Father Ted”. You should be ashamed of yourself. Perhaps you are.
Who will speak for Bolton? Will it be Farage?
Stout, get your snowball ready.
I’ll speak for Henry if they let me. 😐
Good article. I would imagine that after this fiasco the NEC will be much more transparent, as it has already started to be. They are improving on their reputation as the crisis continues. The only thing to be concerned about now is getting Bolton out. I strongly believe that evolutionary and gradual, sensible change would happen under Gerrard, as it just makes more sense.
Bolton has been using UKIP assets such as the database and staff to peddle his arguments and lies and as Stout says where members do not rely on social media, he has an advantage. A big one. Also its hard to topple tyrants. Strange things happen in meetings and abstention and pity will both take a toll of what should logically be a simple out vote. I read ( from Freddy ) that the impression he got was that outside London the voting intentions were far from certain. I believe him.
It is vital that the NEC speaker has instant recognition with this audience. If its Steve Crowther, then thats good . He has the gravitas. . But there must be no mercy. Bolton, if he wins, would only last a matter of weeks, if that, as the party will not survive that result. Its up to all those who read this site , at least, to go and vote. Every single vote counts.
> I read (from Freddy) that the impression he got was that outside London the voting intentions were far from certain. I believe him.
For the avoidance of doubt – what is mentioned is the impression I was given by the Regional Chairmen attending a meeting of Regional Chairmen, chaired by the Party Chairman (too many “chairs”), and that impression is that there is widespread support for Henry out in the sticks.
Now, for whatever reason, not many RCs turn up to these gatherings, and some of the twelve regions are, happily or otherwise, chair-less. So, that same evening (three days before the “unanimous” NEC vote) I phoned two non-attendee RCs; I heard more of the same. A few days later I was telephoned, out-of-the-blue, by another RC for whom the EGM’s Birmingham venue is rather closer to home, and the story was the same again. I got the impression I was being canvassed for Henry.
Well, I am always receptive to and grateful for new insights or information, but decision-making and deciding what’s right, best or least-worst are things which I always (as in, without exception) do for myself.
Speaking with my local UKIP MEP yesterday, I learned that he too had received the same information from one of the persons named above.
So, either:
* other RCs don’t know their regions (I certainly know London UKIP thoroughly, and its compact geography makes that more practicable), or
* other RCs are dissembling, or
* they’re right, in which case this EGM is likely to be a close thing.
—
Stout Yeoman is absolutely “on the maarney” in the matter of self-select groups, and the danger of extrapolating from their intentions to the larger group.
Could it be that the sub-text is, don’t turn up at the EGM, be prepared to learn that your single vote could have made a difference to the result?
I thought you had learned your lesson form your very entertaining but 100% wrong critical analysis of Henry’s academic and military record, but yet here you are, still peddling your assenine half truths and wishful thinking – the NEC is becoming more transparent- you’re deluded if you really believe that.
Dear Father Ted,
You say “the NEC is becoming more transparent- you’re deluded”.
After this kerfuffle is all over we shall need to keep pressing for the NEC’s 12 elected members to insist on electing their own chairman, publishing their minutes within 48 hours, and publishing who voted which way.
We also need to see the Regional Chairmen electing their own chairman and their minutes also being published within 48 hours, and the Regional Chairmen having some power at the centre.
It would be nice if NEC members continued to post on this site…. and if any rules against that happening were scrapped.
I would be nice to be clear that criticising (in a detailed, constructive and truthful way) how the party works is NOT to be suppressed.
There is a danger that the increased openness seen in the last few weeks may subside.
Regards, Toby, 01932-873557
Father Ted. Bolton lied about his BA’s from Sandhurst and the City and Guilds, about being an officer in 1990-1992, being a fully qualified French Commando whilst a TA officer, being an ‘International Diplomat ‘ for the FCO and about fighting in Afghanistan as army officer (don’t question me about that, he was interviewed by The Independent and the article is still out there)
He lied about the sums received from UKIP to LBC only last week.
He lied about Jo Marney. He lied to his wife, he abandoned his children at Christmas. One of whom is still suckling.
He’s a despicable mountebank and needs to be kicked out.
The NEC , by dint of their spokespeople debating with the members, HAVE become more transparent.
I am not deluded.
Good points Stout.
I believe Steve Crowther will be making the NEC case, but that may change.
I think the three additional supporters are very important too.
I do hope somebody is actually organising what I take it is “our side”
Just a thought,
Do you recognise Bolton is running the classic “Fear” campaign, I know we haven`t had WW3 mentioned yet, but UKIP is at least promised Armageddon if he doesn`t have his way?
This presupposes that more than a handful of attendees will be, that afternoon, open to persuasion.
Rob, there are other speaking slots available. With respect, I can get (a lot) more – in terms of both information content and rhetorical range – into two minutes than Steve, or most everyone else, can – or would wish to! Many in London are keen for me to be heard.
However, KFC jokes aside, it’ll take more than a paste-on beard and slow, measured speech, to afford me Steve’s dignified recognisability.
The sinister image of me that people have from my purple email banner is contradicted by my genial, if camera-unfriendly, demeanour – some won’t connect the two.
(I wish we weren’t here, and my feeble attempts at humour mask my rage)
Sinister image or not, if you have a chance to speak then do so. Bolton must go.
Regards.
An article from me may make it, just in time, onto the portable devices of a few undecided attendees.