It was to be expected. The MSM and the rest of the establishment fixated exclusively on UKIP’s proposal to ban the burkha, disregarding everything else in the ‘Integration Agenda’ which the UKIP Leadership presented on April 24th. Of course, it will come as no surprise that the establishment and MSM set the agenda for UKIP yet again.
As usual, facts don’t matter when it’s about UKIP. It is irrelevant that other EUropean countries (France, Belgium, The Netherlands and Austria) have already banned the burkha, it doesn’t matter that Ms Merkel, Chancellor of Germany, is doing just that as well. No – it’s only when UKIP proposes it that is is suddenly ‘toxic’, and you can bet your last penny that, should our dear PM Ms May propose it, it will be praised up and down the halls of Westminster and across the dinner tables of Quislington.
The questions TV journalists asked on that day were deplorable. I happened to watch the SKY interview with Peter Whittle, who held his own and patiently explained to that laydee in the TV studio that no, this was about our culture, where we show our faces when we interact with others. Well, a day later Ms Merkel used the same ‘toxic’ argument, but never mind that.
That journalist thought she was so clever when she asked would we the ban big floppy hats and sunglasses as well …is there now a new religion which demands every woman must wear big floppy hats and sunglasses, or else?
I heard that someone actually asked if UKIP would now also ban beekeepers’ outfits … hohoho, how very funny! It’s news to me that there’s a religion of beekeepers demanding that everybody must dress as they do so as not to offend …
I’ve just had a brilliant idea: why don’t we all wear Guido-Fawkes masks, everywhere, and declare it’s our new religion? We do have a ‘holy day’ already, don’t we! Why should the police and media object to that? After all, sauce is for both goose and gander, no?
But that first reaction of the MSM didn’t stop there. Worse was to come. They homed in on one individual – and our leaders caved in.
This is the background: branches were asked, nationally, to adopt candidates for the GE in hustings on Wednesday 26th April. Those candidates who had stood in 2015 and were thus vetted topped the list. Anne Marie Waters, whom many of us know, was adopted to stand in Lewisham East, as shown on ‘myukip’ (scroll down a bit). The next day – uproar in the usual establishment papers. The Guardian wrote:
“Ukip has been accused of “grubbing around in the gutter” for votes after the party selected a parliamentary candidate who has described Islam as evil. Anne Marie Waters, an activist from the anti-Islam Pegida movement, has also praised the far-right leaders Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders.”
You need to read the whole thing to get the full flavour of this attack, even unto ‘a MEP is worried’, to find this gem:
“The decision was also condemned by the leaders of the Liberal Democrats and Greens, who said Waters’ selection showed Ukip was embracing hard-right politics in an attempt to gather votes in the wake of the EU referendum.”
On Friday 28th of April, we hear from various sources (e.g. here and even here – scroll to the bottom) that Paul Nuttall at the launch of the UKIP Election Campaign was ‘unhappy’ about this selection and that the NEC would look at it. That same evening, I received an email on the NEC decision:
— quote removed —
[Ed: I received an email from UKIP Legal a very short while ago, which is of course ‘confidential and not for publication, so I cannot quote from it. In that email I was asked to remove the quote from the email I had received because some members of the NEC deemed it incorrect and potentially libellous, otherwise one person would have to think about ‘potential legal action’. Note well that none of the NEC members complaining saw fit to comment here, clarify their position or state that they deemed the email quote to be incorrect. Note especially that this distracts from debating their decision to bar Anne Marie Waters from standing]
[Ed: Removing the quote was not sufficient for UKIP Legal, who got in touch with me again, after 8 p.m. on this day. I therefore, on his suggestion, quote Mr Adam Richardson, UKIP Legal: “I was present at the meeting and I am happy for you to quote me as saying he (Peter Whittle) did not do what was alleged.” I refrain from commenting on this extraordinary saga, except for noting again that we have been sidetracked from debating what is the real issue.]
So here we are – again! Appeasing the establishment and the MSM by barring the one UKIP member who has done more to inform us members on sharia law and the dangers of islam than anyone else!
Tim Farron (Libdem) and Caroline Lucas (Greens) set the agenda, rattling even a nameless MEP, so our Leaders then interfere with the selection of branch members for no other reason than hoping to keep the ‘wolves’ quiet. Here’s a thought: why don’t we let Farron, Lucas, Corbyn, the MSM and the hating non-hopers write our manifesto? That would keep them quiet, right?
The points made in the Integration Agenda? Irrelevant, because: UKIP! UKIP must be attacked, in the MSM and by the ‘Hate and don’t hope’ and other leftwing hooligans because no-one must be allowed to criticise islam and the practices of that system which have infiltrated our public lives and politics, from burkhas to FGM to postal voting fraud.
Oh, let’s not get sidetracked by those reasonable demands, say the establishment MSM! Let’s only look at the ‘toxic’ burkha ban. Let’s overlook the one underlying cause making these demands necessary: islam and the creeping islamification of our country …
Instead, they attack one individual, and only four days after presenting the Integration Agenda to great acclaim amongst ordinary members, that individual, Anne Marie Waters, was thrown to the establishment wolves by our oh-so-courageous leaders. It doesn’t bode well for the rest of us, does it – who will be the next amongst us to be thrown to the lefty establishment wolves?
Our leaders had this one chance to show that they meant what they said in that Integration Agenda, that they were standing with all of us members who applauded that agenda. Instead, their behaviour shows that they are disloyal cowards who run away at the first shot fired by the usual suspects. That is no way of winning even one seat in Parliament. That is not ‘being radical because UKIP is radical or it is nothing’!
But then again, we really mustn’t talk about that because, as someone so inelegantly put it, this is just a ‘rancid obsession with islam’ and has nothing to do with ‘real issues’.
Once all men have to sport beards and all women are forced to dress ‘modestly’, hidden under black bags, we might perhaps come back and pathetically obsess about this so-called religion … oh wait: it might be too late by then, mightn’t it …
Pls understand there is no such thing as multi-culture with muslims. There is only mono-culture with muslims as they don’t respect the values, belief and culture of the Brits. But they want everyone to bow down to their values, belief and culture.
What Barry said, wavering on giving my vote to a bunch of cowards.
To repeat, the long-term of Islamists is to dominate. They’ve infiltrated Labour and Labour is too weak, to bound, too enervated —- morally, politically and psychologically …… they are too dependent on the Moslem vote bank (‘safe deposits’) …..
After Andy Burnham wins the Manchester mayoral election, it might be a Moslem candidate next – perhaps the one representing Labour for what was supposed to be the Manchester Gorton by-election …..
There are Islamists and there Islamists – one is mainstream; the other is fringe — but both share the same goal differing only in the means – the former by constitutional and political and the latter by extra-constitutional and non-political methods …..
To assure AJAX (and those who disagree), there are Sharia-zones and no-go areas in the country …..
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9741/islamization-britain
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5177/no-go-zones-britain
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/01/21/europes-muslim-no-go-zones-documented-on-video/
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/657520/Europe-no-go-900-EU-areas-police-lost-control
The issue is whether or not Islamisation (as a catch-all term) matters?
To repeat again – based on *experience* and what’s happening in the real world (here in the UK and elsewhere), the answer is yes.
And the following are some illustrations to demonstrate that the burqa ban and, yes, even the call to ban non-stun abbatoirs by the majority of UKIP members and supporters as can be reasonably inferred from here at UKIP Daily is not unreasonable but perfectly reasonable …..
1. India
– Cow slaughter, sale and distribution of meat is either outrightly banned or strictly regulated in many states. Hindus (majority) revere cows whereas Moslems (minority) eat beef.
2. China
– Public servants and students from the indigenous (i.e. to Xinjiang Province) are not allowed or strongly discouraged from fasting.
3. Singapore
– Moslems in the armed forces are still unofficially barred from assigned to sensitive posts or units such as heavy machine-gun units or tank brigades. (Most Moslems are not called up for national service but instead serve in the police reserve).
– Female Moslem students are banned from wearing the headscarf at schools and adults are prohibited from doing so in certain public agencies.
It’s ironic that AJAX’s position now resembles the mainstream parties when it comes to integration vis-a-vis integration.
And that his position on immigration (based on race and not space as is the official UKIP policy and the majority of members and supporters) resembles that of the BNP. (Although personally as a non-white, I don’t feel offended because at the end of the day, whether race or space, the demographic balance in the UK must be maintained, i.e., the indigenous white must always be in the clear majority of 90 per cent at the minimum – otherwise there will horrible consequences in the future).
Quite a hybrid.
Jason, thank you, you have summed up perfectly both the situation we are in, and the reason members must be resolute and not allow UKIP to fade into irrelevance, as seems to have been the intention for some time.
We know what the problem is, which is that no-one represents those, like one poster here, already suffering miserably from the arrogance of people who, instead of respecting British values, wish to impose their own, and do so while Governments of all colors look the other way in the name of diversity and multi-culti.
Members must stay strong, stay focussed, and stay in UKIP.
Viv, reading your purple bit, first, I am extremely sorry for all the hassle you have gone through. Because of this, I am hesitant to comment further, but I would like to say that if the intention was to sidetrack members, speaking personally, it has done the opposite, because the original email, stating what it did, and which I read on Twitter, might have been, in my personal opinion, a cynical attempt to deflect blame, and I personally feel it should not be swept under the carpet.
However, given the stress all this may well have caused you, I have been extremely careful in what I have said, as you may not want any further comments regarding this episode. I felt it might need saying, but whoever is editing this site today is quite at liberty to delete this post from me.
Dee: as I posted in a comment yesterday, they do try and sidetrack us.
However, in accordance with our comment policy, anybody is free to say what they think, provided it’s short(ish) and, above all, provided there are no personal attacks on other members, right up to the top, using foul or snide language.
If Those On Top think they can intimidate you, other posters, or me as E-i-C, they better think again.
So please do not feel intimidated.
I do thank you for your consideration, Dee – but please do keep posting!
It was probably two NEC members leaking their difference into the public domain. Viv, who is made of stern stuff so don’t worry, saw the trap and wants us to focus on the main issue.
My view is that Anne Marie’s courage need to be matched. So, the hierarchy who do not agree she is unfit to stand for the party need to say so. The issue of mutilation is so serious that it transcends, or ought to, petty personal comfort or ambition.
On a really significant issue of this importance we are entitled to know where the people who run our party actually stand.
Viv and Stout, thank you for your relies.
I agree with all you both have written. I especially agree with Stout’s observation that we are entitled to know. i hope very much others besides me have written to HQ – and adding,this sentence is important. If they have done something which has caused huge upset within the Party members, we need an explaination.
If you flee from criticism, abuse, misrepresentation, smears and lies – then they will pursue you like a devil, and you are lost. You will gain absolutely nothing – not power, and certainly not integrity. You will simply have confirmed your cowardice.
We need a party, and a leader, who will stand up for what we believe, who will take the fight to the enemy (for enemy they undoubtedly are), and who will nail our colours to the mast rather than hauling them down at the prospect of battle.
It seems too late to rescue UKIP for its membership now – and after this election, the party’s name will be anathema to both its enemies and its supporters, so where will it go, and where will its members go?
Stuart, I may be wrong, but I believe that many people are willing UKIP both to survive and flourish, and, after the election, possibly not until the Conference, it will be down to members to ensure that happens, which is why it’s so important to continue membership. The general public don’t take such a lot of notice of the fine detail, all they know is that UKIP has a rubbish Top Team, with the exception of Peter Whittle, who stands firm when questioned, imo.
For UKIP, tho not perhaps for the U.K. a large plus Is that Arron Banks has shocked many who believed the Patriotic Alliance would replace UKIP in fearlessly speaking out for British values etc. Arron Banks has come out against banning the Burka so there will probably be no direct flight there from UKIP (I might have been one). He doesn’t seem to think Integration is as necessary as many British people do, from reading his tweets.
I think the general public, as well as posters on here who already do, will ask with ever more urgency, if UKIP doesn’t give us a voice, who will?
Anne Marie’s article in this very organ generated a lot of mail for Head Office. Nuttall, quoted in the press, said the new integration policy was not “top down” but came from “grass roots members”.
The problem is that having noted how she inspired members they do not want her representing the policy or UKIP.
UKIP is not giving us a voice. They have barred her.
Supporting Anne Marie and defying the leader are two different things it seems. I can understand that a GE can constrain NEC members in challenging the leader. But I am not sure the mutilated girls will understand. Anne Marie, after 10 years of unrelenting dedication and courage deserves better. Who among those who run the party will say so. Thus far, no-one.
I agree absolutely, Stout, it seems to me that, although Peter Whittle does his best, he hasn’t nearly the depth of knowledge that Anne Marie has. UKIP members had thought, with her at the helm of this policy, many more people would understand what and why we are fighting. As it is, without a competent spokesman, it’s a policy bound to fail – was that the intention, and why would the NEC and Leadership want UKIP to look less than competent? It’s an insult to all who supported this.
Dee.
I agree.
UKIP are the best chance for the UK – for me the only realistic hope.
The UK will continue to decline under the other mainstream parties.
I have recently joined UKIP.
Need to be a member to influence policy and have a say on the leadership.
Also need to be loyal through any setbacks and wrong moves.
Unless a party with better prospects emerges.
I have been on the sidelines observing for too long and am now going to get involved.
Britain desperately needs a credible alternative to the existing mainstream parties.
A party with common sense policies that have popular support.
Great, Maximus – tell all your friends! Eventually many more people will understand the importance of UKIP, when UKIP finally becomes the party members want it to be (again). We have a new fight that has to be fought for our culture and our birthright.
And I forgot to add, Maximus, so many brave people gave their lives, before they had properly enjoyed it, so that we could have the freedoms we are now so careless of. We owe it to them.
Please all note that many nec members couldn’t attend – John Bickley has tweeted he is on holiday – so talk of removing “anyone not named” as sole criterion is wrong… ?
No-one said anything about “removing” anyone. I merely pointed out that the many, many angry members will be able to vote at the next NEC elections and they can decide to not vote for anyone that failed to support Anne Marie. Your misreading looks like paranoia.
It was a responsible comment. I was urging people to exercise their response in a democratic way in a ballot. I was not advocating, for example, the setting up of a hate group as happened over Steven Woolfe. How come you are not thanking me?
I didn’t know that Bickely was someone we could vote for – or not. He isn’t so why mention him?
Some issues are so serious – mutilation of girls by the thousands is one – that they transcend personal comfort and self-interest. The hierarchy will be judged, should be judged, by the absence of any public statement that they do not agree Anne Marie is unfit to represent UKIP. It is that serious and that important to members. Who will match her courage? Can we have your statement? The silent will be judged cowards. And rightly so
The point is that we don’t know who was present, so people suggesting voting iut anyone not “named” is wrong IMHO…
In due course the minutes will be available on MyUKIP and then that question will be answered…
You really think the minutes on MyUKIP will name names? Is that a promise?
It is blindingly obvious that the NEC decision is controversial and inflammatory (again) and as before there is no email sent to members giving them the information they seek. You are basically saying the leadership can do what they like, need not account for themselves, need not answer questions or give any information in the interests of transparency.
It is obvious members are struggling to understand, to come to terms with the NEC’s decision. Don’t help them. Just carp about my suggestion about accountability. That’s the way.
Members will draw inferences from silence and will interpret it as cowardice. They are entitled to.
I see you too have not expressed a view on whether Anne Marie is a fit person to be a UKIP candidate. Not an important enough issue for you clearly. Nor have you explained your curious reference to Mr Bickely who has never been on any ballet paper.
I am entitled to urge members to vote for Brexiteers, for example, and I am entitled to urge members not to vote for anyone too cowardly to come out publicly on whether Anne Marie should be barred. It is not “wrong”. If you don’t like blanket statements then urge the party to publish the details of how Anne Marie was judged not fit to stand under a UKIP banner. I’ll adjust my recommendations in due course.
I promise the minutes, at the very top, will name who the non-attendees were. From that it is possible to deduce who voted against Anne, assuming (a big if) reports of who voted for are accurate.
UKIP minutes have NEVER revealed how NEC members voted, only the majority (e.g. 7 for, 3 against, 2 abstentions). That said, comments made preceeding the vote may give a guide, for example an “Over my dead body” person is unlikely to vote for.
Hope that clarifies. ?
Stout, thank you, you certainly speak for this member. However, despite emails, I have been unable to access the (only?)NEC minutes with the new NEC, the reply I got was that my email address was in the records. End of. It’s true that I have received the Chairmans cheerily bland emails, and begging letters, but could not access the minutes. Someone else at the time posted they found the same thing – this must be sorted out.
Dear Stout,
I did not stand for the NEC last time because my doctor had advised me to avoid stress. (Stroke, 2012)
However …. this AMW episode however is so bad that I am encouraged to put my hat in the ring next time.
Several NEC members are willing to assent for me.
It is well known that, when I was on the NEC, I often voted against the central clique.
People would have to judge whether that was the sort of NEC member they wanted.
It would help if the way the votes are stored before the count could be tightened up.
I wonder if anyone has asked AMW whether she is willing to stand for leader.
Is she good on admin, or in judging which of the people around her are competent and honest?
The right of the chairman and NEC to suspend people is IMO in the rules to cope with emergencies. It is being misused.
Regards, Toby, 01932-873557
Have you tried http://www.myukip.com –> login –> more –> UKIP NEC –> “NEC Meeting Report 09/01/2017” as a path, Dee?
Thank you Rob, I think I tried all ways, but I will try again. I am not technically astute!
I visited another branch yesterday, gave my talk regarding non-stun religious abattoirs, and the chairman called for a show of hands vote. All the branch members at the meeting want the humane policy restored – banning non-stun abattoirs.
The NEC has been completely at odds with the concerns of branch members for two years at least. I can prove that to be true with documented evidence, if anybody from the legal department wants to question my statement.
A party divided on such serious matters as Islam and its related animal cruelty cannot stand.
Also at the branch meeting the topic of Anne Marie was discussed. There is strong support for her. There is deep concern about Islam. UKIP has to speak boldly on difficult topics, or else nobody will. LibLabCon are too scared.
Nuttall is an ignorant fool in my opinion. Has he shown any evidence at all that he has read the Koran? If not, on what basis is he sitting in judgement on party members who have studied it for years?
Nuttall is illogical. How can it possibly make sense for the party to be anti-Sharia but pro-Halal?
He is a walking disaster. He has brought the party into far more disrepute with his fantasist ideas on Hillsborough and Tranmere Rovers, than Godfrey Bloom for example joking about cleaning behind fridges.
It’s a religion of peace. Islamic scholars from Tony Blair and Cameron to Theresa May have all said so. That the number of people being murdered, women and girls raped, has been increasing across Europe is nothing to do with the religion of peace and the increase in Muslim numbers. Our leaders say so. Utterly spurious correlation. (The perpetrators are all Welsh Methodists I assume.) So our own great Scholar, Paul Nuttall, naturally wants nothing to do with the party’s most courageous member notwithstanding that her knowledge of the religion of peace is unparalleled.
The fact that every muslim majority country practices various forms of barbarism is wholly misleading. Ask Tony Blair.
Our leader simply fears there may not be enough cupboards to hide in. That’s leadership.
I hope I’ve helped clear things up.
Thankyou SY, yes that has cleared it up.
And to add to our joy all the lefties are foregoing their coffee fix in order to help prevent the Grauniad going bust. Or not – you would not expect a socialist to actually pay for something that they use? Maybe the Grauniad should be merged with the BBC so we can all pay for it?
What a brilliant suggestion. Socialists are better than anyone at spending other people’s money. God forbid anyone should decide for themselves how to spend their own money. I’ll write to my MP straight away.
Perhaps, if you do not live too far away, I might be invited to explain the difference between hallal and shechita. Shechita is still the most humasne method of slaughter.
If UKIP does vote on this issue, I shall certainly rtesign as I honestly believe that this is nothing to do with cruelty to animals. where are the protests about the slaughter of unwanted male billy kids only days old? How about the throwing of live day old male chicks as unwanted, thrown into a thresher still alive?
Where is tyhe outcry of hunting and slaughter of live animals for sport, and there is plenty of that going on?
I look forward to your answer Hugo. Perhaps yourt answer might be same as one I received earlier regarding leaving the UK for the Promised Land.
Martin,
Please can you post a link to a video of the Kosher method? If you are able to provide actual evidence that it is as humane as proper stunning then I would be delighted to see it.
Hugo,
I directed you to Shechita.UK. You wrote that you had read it, when you clearly had not. I do not have a video of the Jewish method, nor do I have video of so called per stunning that has gone wrong, leaving confused and frightened animals.
I respectfully suggest that you actually view the whole site and if you have any questions, why not contact Shechita directly and allow them to answer you?
To compare Hallal and Shechita is like comparing cheddar with Camembert. Both are cheeses fire all.
Shechita was allowed in the Uk because it was viewed as humane regardless of the disreputable arSPCA. Less than 300.000 Jews in the whole of the Uk does not pose the same powerhouse as3 million Muslims.
I share your view of being against animal cruelty. Unfortunately with Shechita, you are making a mistake. Whether it is malicious or not,only you know the truth.
Has anybody seen a definitive statement regarding:
– who attended the NEC meeting.
– who voted for Anne Marie to be a candidate
– who against
– who abstained (if any)
Of course not. You having a laugh? Transparency? On an issue that really matters to members?
Attendees will be show when the summary minutes are approved and published.
VERY WELL SAID, VIV. YOU HAVE MY SUPPORT.
UKIP (Nuttall and cronies I presume) has made a serious error in sidelining a candidate who speaks up for many of us. The damage is done and a reversal of that decision cannot now work.
That’s it for me; I will not consider joining UKIP unless Nuttall and cronies resign. Time for the membership to create a deluge of mail and threaten to leave unless Nuttall is removed.
I hope that she stands as an independent against Nuttall. His cowardice and observance of political correctness will be the end of UKIP anyway.
(anger subsided a bit) I would add that it is only outspoken people like AMW who can give us any chance of turning back the islamisation of our country. If that fails then we either accept it or take up arms.
My UKIP membership is due for renewal in July. At the moment I can think of far better uses for my membership fee and will most probably not renew. This party has become a clone of lib/lab/con etc under the current leadership and administration.
I have heard Anne Marie Waters speak and I would like to say this in her support.
Everywhere in the world Muslim minorities cause trouble and, conversely, minority religions in Muslim countries are at great risk. It may be that nine out of ten Muslim immigrants want to peacefully get on with their lives, build careers, run their businesses, have families (some big) and so on, but the tenth one will be a proponent for Islam, challenging the culture of the host nation. They cannot be separated, that is how Muslim migrants come, and those tenth ones (or nth ones, whatever the figure) are the one who count. They are the custodian of Muslim identity, the default leaders if and when the Muslim community feels pressure against their culture and their continued expansion. The bombings, beheadings and running down of pedestrians seem to do them no harm. Whatever their public protestations against these terrorist acts in their name one suspects there are a hundred thousand young Muslim men (and women) out there who conceal satisfaction, or equivocate, because it asserts their identity and shows that they are strong and not afraid to die. The underlying message is: ‘Be warned! You don’t mess with Muslims.’
This restless and assertive desire for separation of their Muslim communities within host nations, some even aspiring to domination, has been evident for years but it is only by listening to Anne Marie Waters that one gets cogent reasons why this is so. She is such a contrast to mainstream media apologists who reiterate, after every terrorist act, that these are tiny minorities of radicalized individuals and Muslims are overwhelmingly peaceful and should be embraced in our multicultural society. It is the standard response of a craven Establishment, who invented ‘diversity’ and ‘multiculturalism’ because that way they didn’t have to do anything difficult, didn’t have to demand cultural assimilation and they could excuse their failure to restrict mass migration. They are instinctive appeasers. It is the hardest thing to weld disparate peoples into a nation and over the post-war decades most of our leaders, with some notable exceptions, have taken the easy option, always suppressing maverick criticism with the charge of racism.
If Anne Marie is prevented from standing for UKIP I hope it is temporary and tactical. The mainstream media accuse her, and potentially UKIP, of conducting ‘a war against Islam’ (while playing down the terrorist acts, Sharia courts, female genital mutilation) and if they keep repeating it the liberal-left media can make campaigning more difficult for UKIP. In this charged situation it is better for UKIP leaders to say ‘We have said what we said on that matter and we stand by it’ and move the conversation on, making it clear to Labour-voting brexiteers that voting for UKIP is the only way to ensure they get the best exit deal from Europe, and meanwhile find some original, outside-the-box policy ideas. We need some brainstorming; there is nothing to lose. I have heard more than one UKIP voter say they will vote for Teresa May this time round to give her maximum leverage in the coming negotiations so the UKIP vote may well drop but a clear, distinctive stance on the country’s problems, and the world’s problems, will keep us on the map.
I fear that May is using the same kind of message or propaganda that Cameron used viv a vis the SNP and Labour. Ukip voters appear to be falling for this as well as the general public.
I shal;l still vote UKIP, even if our leadership appears to not not warrant the support.
Just to change the subject a bit the Conservatives seem to be fielding remain candidates even in leave areas, this needs to be observed carefully, we are all about to be stitched up by looks of things.
Every day, we hear and see the leaders of the other parties being interviewed or show them at their party rallies exhorting the party faithful. We learn that the Tories and the LibDems and even the Labour party are all increasing support and membership, while UKIP support is on a freefall. The buck stops at the top, not the kippers. Nigel said that Nuttall has 6 weeks to proved himself. Sorry, this is not good enough. I have been prepared to offer him full support from the beginning. but not anymore. He desperately needs to get a frip on this party and show that he is worth our support and membership.
From our leader, well he appears to have taken a shtumpowder. Where is he? Have our leadership for the most part indulged in self inflicted wounds? Or has this awful lack of real management been planned by them?
I never took any interest in the leadership or the NEC etc, I just worked at local level to make UKIP noticed. I am very disappointed with what is going on, and thank the editor and those others in the know to inform us, the mere “faithful” just how rotten this party is becoming. My own membership finishes in November, and after quite a number of years membership feel that perhaps we ordinary peopole are unwanted except to pay our dues and keep the top people in their jobs. I have not been to the last two monthly meetings locally, as the branch is just a place to talk and very little actually happens,
I shall vote for the local leader, a very genuine and hard working person. Pity, he is not in PN’s position, as I would not consider leaving the party.
UKIP for Gods sake get a grip or you will sink into oblivion which is where the establishment want you to be. I joined UKIP because it was different and wanted to take our country out of the EU. I don’t want a sanitized UKIP I want one that isnt afraid to tackle issues the main stream parties are too cowardly to confront. You have got to decide what path to take and bear in mind not everyone will want to follow you.
VIV, AND EVERYONE ON HERE – THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT
I HAVE READ A TWEET FROM ANISH,WHO SAYS IT WAS NOT, REPEAT NOT PETER WHITTLE WHO OPPOSED ANNE MARIE – IT WAS IN FACT PAUL NUTTALL.
THOSE WHO SUPPORTED ANNE MARIE, ACCORDING TO ANISH, WHO WAS THERE, WERE, PETER WHITTLE, STRONGLY IN FAVOUR, ANISH, KATIE FANNING, PAUL OAKLEY, LIZ JONES.
PLEASE VIV PUT SOMETHING ON,THE SITE IN RED – BECAUSE PETER HAS BEEN SMEARED BY SOMEONE, AND IT IS EXTREMELY UNFAIR.
This is how they play us, Dee: suddenly it’s all about how unfair it is to ‘smear Peter Whittle’, on the say-so of one NEC member (Anish).
What about the NEC barring Anne Marie Waters? Is that now irrelevant because ‘Peter Whittle has been smeared’, allegedly? Was that lot ‘fair’ to Anne Marie Waters, who wasn’t even told – she didn’t know anything until she read it on here.Is that fair?
Two questions, for you and Anish:
1) if Mr Whittle likes Anne Marie so much, why, as deputy leader, was he incapable of convincing the rest that she should not be barred?
2) why is it that neither Anish (who had an article published here) not Mr Whittle nor nor any of them feels capable of coming here and comment, setting the record straight?
Why do they have to get UKIP Legal to demand the removal of a quote instead of engaging with us?
Let me repeat again: this is about Anne Marie Waters having been barred from standing, not about the feelings of Mr Whittle or certain NEC members.
Dear Viv, it was my feeling that it was unfair to Peter, especially as the original ‘tweet’ remember, not your copy of it – said Peter Whittle practically begged, or something similar. All that happened was that I went onto Anne Marie’s Twitter, where I read Anish’s ‘setting the record straight’ account, which being technically useless, I was unable to transfer over here for all to read. I tweeted that I would set the record straight on UKIP Daily, and Anne Marie liked that tweet, so that’s what, in my Kak-handed way, I tried to do – I do get over-excited at times!
Anne Marie has said on her Twitter thing that she only found out about deselection on Twitter, and she will be replying on Monday. Anish should come on here and give a clear account for members of what actually happened, I feel, and I will message him to that end. But he may not do so – although I feel we are owed a clear account?
To me, the interesting thing is why anyone should want to discredit Peter, and who sent the original information. Peter has always seemed to be a far more credible spokesperson on Islamisation than Paul.
Really, all this should be dealt with, and I think our Leader owes us an explaination of what happened, and why. Peter Whittle doesn’t have an open Twitter account or I would ask him. Anish is the only one who does. So much distress and anger on Anne Marie’s site from members and UKIP supporters about her treatment – the Leadership must do something.
As to the legal stuff – was that Anish, or Peter, or Oakden, or even Nuttall, we have no idea, have we? I haven’t contacted Anish directly, simply sent that tweet. I will message him, and ask him to read these comments and reply – whether he will or not I have no idea.
Dee,
I have been researching Anish’s claim. I cannot find a single tweet or other statement by Peter Whittle supporting Anne Marie. Not one, ever. If you know of one then please post a link.
Now, it may be that Whittle supported her in defiance of his leader upon whose patronage his job depends. Or may be not. But we need corroboration. Where is it? If the allegation were repeated after corroboration of Whittle’s support then that would be unfair. If Whittle tweets that he personally did not agree with the NEC’s decision then fine. If he dissociates himself form the view that Anne Marie is unfit to represent the party then fine. For now we know only that four people voted for her.
None of us doubt that Nuttall was against her but so it seems were a number of others. Nuttall alone does not have the power to bar her.
If Whittle feels he has been misrepresented let him say so. No-one else is his spokesperson. True support for Anne Marie requires courage. Haven’t seen any of them show that. Some issues transcend self-interest and Anne Marie’s cause is one such if anything is.
Stout,
It seems to me they are fighting like rats in a sack blaming each other for this disastrous decision they collectively have made, until one of them comes on this site and defends their decision then they are all cowards IMO. Sick of them making decisions behind closed doors without consultations from members of the grassroots, they are now going to face the consequences for this.
Another observation to my other reply to Dee.
Nuttall and Whittle go round in tandem most of the time. Before the NEC meeting Nuttall expressed views to the press (Telegraph) about the NEC reviewing “this woman”. That is, one particular candidate was already on the radar and not in a good way.
How likely is it that Nuttall and Whittle, his deputy, did not discuss this beforehand? If they agreed to differ, and it was a ding dong between leader and deputy, then Nuttall cannot complain if Whittle tweets his support for Anne Marie. Anish claims his “friend” supported her “strongly” but not so strongly, it seems, that there is any evidence of it from Whittle himself.
I think we can take all these claims with a pinch of salt. The only certainty is that Anne Marie, allowed to stand in Lewisham East in 2015, has now been shafted. Yet, there is no change to her position other than association with the moribund or defunct Pegida UK. Not sure why that should matter.
O.k. Stout – I have no idea about any of it, but I went back to Anne’s Twitter and hand copied this, which is what Anish posted word for word. Typed exactly as is
‘I just want to clarify some lies that have been going around about the NEC meeting that took place yesterday (Friday) where my good friend Anne Marie Waters came to see if she could stand in the upcoming election for UKIP. I would like to clear up that Peter Whittle voiced the strongest support FOR her standing and it was intact (I think he meant infact) the old UKIP Establishment who wanted to stop her. Peter is a good friend of mine and has always stood firmly in opposition to Islamism. Here are the people who supported Anne Marie standing, Peter Whittle, myself, Katie Fanning, Paul Oakley and Liz Jones. The people Against were Paul Nuttall and others. it was Paul who blocked Anne from standing not Peter.
(Underneath Anish has written) The truth about yesterday, please read and RT.
So there you have it, Stout. To me, the important thing is who sent that original account and how did it get into Twitter – it was very demeaning about Peter Whittle, imo. But Viv is right, not nearly so important as deselecting Anne Marie, and not telling her – did they send her away and say they would let her know? So many questions.
If, as Anish says, Whittle voiced the “strongest” support for her and Nuttall was seeking to block her, the leader and deputy must have had a right ding dong. Very brave of Whittle to challenge the leader that way at the NEC – if it happened – especially as his job is dependent on Nuttall’s patronage. If there is some evidence of that then Whittle will have my support for sure.
I don’t trust any of them. Too many play games, are two faced etc. The fact remains that Anne Marie was shafted. Thank you for distracting us from that.
I hope I didn’t Stout – only if she was shafted by the Leader, against the will of the Branch that selected her, surely that is important? Or should be.
Dear Dee,
You say “against the will of the branch”. Yes indeed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08nxsbr/the-andrew-marr-show-23042017
Look around 19 minutes to 23 minutes.
Paul Nuttall says “Muslim population is doubling decade on decade, 3 million now, 6 million soon“.
In deciding whether to contest constituencies… “This will not be an order which is coming down from the top of the party. I will speak to branches over the coming weeks. ….. We’ll be having discussions with branches. What I won’t do is make the mistake we made in 2010 when the party leader told branches to stand down….[the decision will be] down to the branch”.
He was talking about whether to contest seats against Brexiteers,… not selection of candidates. Even so it is a good principle.
The rule that lets the chairman or NEC deselect people is there to be used IMHO in emergencies. It has been misused (i.e. NOT in emergencies) against Chris Pain, Suzanne Evans, and now Anne Marie Waters.
How can we influence the decision? Not sure.
Regards, Toby, 01932-873557
Viv has it right – use Twitter and branch secretaries.
And Dee too – if there is no reversal of this decision, we must all go to Conference in September and take it over.
Something else too – make your views known to your branch chairman, now.
Well said Viv. I am in awe of the GUTS of Anne Marie Waters. Brave enough to state the truth but howled down by cowards in denial. I heard her speak a few weeks ago at a House of Lords committee, she presents the shocking, depressing truth calmly, rationally and honestly. Few people in Britain are prepared to do that, she deserves our 100% support. For UKIP to falter like this is unforgivable and revealing. This is an historic moment and turning point. We have to face this massive problem now or it will be far, far worse in the future. Screw what the Guardian/BBC/idiot Left/Farron/wet lettuce Tories say, this is the 1930’s all over again.
If UKIP turns into the equivalent of Britain First it’s politically finished. Those who want that should go & openly join up with B.F. rather than trying to turn UKIP into a MKII version of it, & march around in Pakistani communities with Union Jacks, waving plastic crucifixes at the locals, & invading their temples & religious bookshops, accusing them all of being in “grooming gangs” whilst oppressing their women & mutilating their daughters.
This is frankly bordering on hysterical nonsense, as well as being stupid, & it is electorally suicidal for UKIP too.
And the “Integration” idea that there is something wrong with Pakistanis (because that’s who are being referred to generally with this Mohammedan-baiting that’s now abroad in elements of UKIP), which will be corrected by having the Government brainwash them into “being English or Welsh” is inane.
Opposing the ongoing mass importation of foreign populations for the societal threats it offers is one thing, persecution of people because they are not like you, with the ridiculous idea that you can make them like you by doing it, is ridiculous.
UKIP needs to be much bigger than this politically & intellectually.
Ajax, how very silly! It is precisely when there is no party that expresses the perfectly reasonable fears and objections to the Islamisation of Britain – being told that ‘Sharia is good for Britain’ to quote our current Prime Minister, and not being given any voice to disagree with that statement, that extremism flourishes.
Frankly, your statements are ridiculous. When has anyone in UKIP flourished a crucifix? One can only assume you are quite relaxed about Sharia Law and all the rest of it – and one can only wonder why.
There is nothing but truth spoken by Anne Marie, she has an enormous wealth of knowledge about Islam, Sharia Law and all that goes with it, and as Integration is the only way to attempt to combat creeping Sharia Zones, increasing Sharia courts and more isolation within a burka, she should be leading UKIP in this policy area. It also takes courage – and within UKIP, she is, apparently, the only spokesperson who has it. Members support her in the majority from what I read.
Every time anyone brings up the worrying creeping Islamisation of Britain, you are the only hysterical, opposing voice – we have been through this argument many times on here, and while you may be right about immigration, that is not the argument here.
Dee, apart from Halal (which I agree with objections to in the state provided food chain, such as in schools & hospitals, etc.), where is the ‘creeping Islamisation’ in England & Wales that you’re so agitated about. What is ‘Islamisation’ exactly, & how does it manifest itself & impinge on your life personally?
Who are you to tell a small minority of religiously orthodox Pakistanis how they should & should not dress via the power of legal punishment if they don’t obey you, any more than they should give you such commands?
What makes you think the government can make Pakistani people abandon their religion and culture & sense of who they are to become an ersatz version of us, any more than our ex-pats on moving to the costas become Spanish? If you went to live in India, as many of us did during the Empire, would you stop being who you are & start mimicking native culture? No, I’ll bet you wouldn’t, so what makes you think they will here in reverse? This is not how human beings work.
Carrying on hysterically about this ridiculous distractive nonsense (during an E-L-E-C-T-I-O-N, i.e. at the worst possible time) when there are far more sensible & important things for UKIP to be focusing on, such as stopping mass foreign migration (which is bringing these people that you are so concerned about in by the 10’s of thousands every year into our shores, augmenting their numbers & demographic power – which you appear oblivious to in your new obsession with “Integrating” them), is deluded, as well as being politically amateurish in the extreme.
I wouldn’t block from on high this odd looking Irish woman with an apparent fixation with a religion from being a UKIP candidate particularly, but she would seem to fit more in her public utterances with rabble-rousing street protest movements & cultural commentary than a political party seeking to govern the nation, & I suspect that she would be a bit of a liability to UKIP by making it appear to the public like an party of religiously obsessed bigoted cranks. However, if a UKIP association wants her as their candidate – that’s their business.
Ajax, your second paragraph – there are ‘Sharia controlled areas’ policed by advocates of Sharia. They try to enforce dress codes, abusing and threatening women who don’t conform, as incidentally, now happens in the Paris suburbs – hence, creeping Sharia, of which the burka is an outwards manifestation. We have been through all this, you know about it from posters. Sharia Law, as you, an intelligent man must know, is a complete political system, advocated by the Wahhabi form of Islam.
Dee, tell me where in England or Wales Sharia Law is being enforced in the way that you suggest it is here, cite for me an iota of evidence of it to support it please?
Believe what you want, Ajax. There was a report not long ago of an old man beaten up for drinking in one of these zones. Other information is not for public discussion here.
Thx Dee, your answer to my questions confirms my thoughts, there is no evidence because it’s not happening.
UKIP cannot be governed by such illogicality, if it allows itself to be it will be finished politically.
What you should be directing your passion towards is something that is happening, for which there is mountains of evidence of: the Liblabcon’s programme of mass foreign migration into England & Wales, & that should be UKIP’s target, not obsessing about trying to convert foreign masses into something that they’re not from what they are, once they’re here.
AJAX, in response to your first paragraph: ‘Islamisation’ or whatever anyone wishes to call it, has been manifesting itself and impinging on my life personally for several years now. I live in an area with a high number of Muslim migrants, and the men routinely harrass and physically grope at British women who walk past them. No woman is safe from this – I have seen girls as young as ten and women in their eighties being targeted, to say nothing of myself on a daily basis every time I step out of my front door. No one does anything to stop it. I wish I could afford to move house, but at present this is financially impossible.
For a lot of people who do not live in areas like this, I can appreciate how it might be hard to understand how girls and women especially are being affected by Islamisation, but I experience the negative side of it every day, and it’s terrifying.
Thanks, CLB, and So sorry you are experiencing such harassment. I couldn’t go into further discussion with Ajax, in case I put a job at risk. Enough said.
AJAX, You need to get out and about a bit and observe what is happening in our country.
‘Britain First’ is not a political party. If it ‘turned into it’ it would be politically finished by definition.
If you cannot talk about the issue under discussion, don’t waste your own time discussing something you’ve made up to replace it.
….Which is not ‘Pakistanis’.
Ajax – very simple question: have you read the Koran?
Yes or no.
Dear Panmelia,
Had you gone to Hartlepool you would have encountered Nuttall scuttling and running again. He was supposed to be at a rally outside of a pub but had to cancel. Two woman, one UKIP and one Remain, got into a fight! Two women have a spat – bit of scratching according to the Telegraph – and Nuttall can’t cope. A man would have stepped between them. One did but it wasn’t Nuttall.
The candidate launch went swimmingly then, Stout!
@SY
Yes, I read about that in the local paper online. He cancelled the rally in ‘Pool because two women got into a spat. Let’s just hope no one in Boston & Skegness feels ike a bit of fisticuffs, or he won’t get any campaigning done at all.
Anne Marie should kick UKIP into touch and start her own group or party, called “ONE LAW FOR ALL”. I’d join it like a shot, donate and work hard for it. There I was, thinking the leadership had found some guts, grown some balls, girded their loins and discovered their backbone – then they fall flat at the first hurdle of MSM and Guardianista moron ‘outrage’. The only people who have come out of this with any honoue are Liz Jones, Anish Patel, Katie Fanning and Anish Patel. I’ll remember their names.
Un*******believabe!! Disgusting, cowardly, stupid backsliders.
I was asked to go to Hartlepool this morning because Paul Nuttall was there, but I have a cold and didn’t go; I’m grateful for the cold. I won’t lift a finger for UKIP until it stops persecuting and blocking Anne Marie, the best leader we haven’t got.
UKIP is slowly destroying itself by this constant in-fighting. As a member of nearly 15 years, I believe I have the right to tell our leaders and their cliques, that they must STOP this stupid bickering and get on with holding the Tories to our Brexit vote. THAT is their job, not trying to set-up their camps inside the party, for their own selfish purposes. If Anne Marie Waters is telling the truth, then UKIP should welcome her with open arms, not behave like bickering school children in a playground. Our future depends on our successful and full exit from the doomed EU and playing games does NOT help our case and cause, one iota. So stop it, get rid of all the trouble makers and let us forge ahead on a straight and determined path for total independence, control of our borders, and enforcement of our current laws, with the exception of all the so-called “hate” laws, which should all be repealed immediately. Islam IS a problem and the sooner we face up to it, the better.
Viv, that quote was on Twitter first thing this morning, in exactly the format you printed it in. It was widely RT’d, at about 8.30 am I picked it up. So I wouldn’t worry, it’s all over the place.
Meantime, you did say, so I have tweeted the hell out of this article!! Tin hat time?
Thanks, Dee – that is very interesting indeed!
I shall refrain from stating what I think of this interference, except to say that it’s again a marvellous proof of the political inability prevailing amongst our ‘leadership class’ On Top.
Glad to be of use, Viv. The accompanying comments that I saw were universally no longer support, will never vote UKIP again and some slightly more colorful relating to what the Leadership could do!
Interesting that article widely RT’d and also have not read single comment on my Bit of Twitter supporting the deselection decision.
All one rather depressing joke.
ATTENTION ALL READERS AND COMMENTERS:
I was asked by UKIP Legal to remove the quote from the email I received yesterday evening.
I have complied – please read the text (in red) in the now amended article.
Viv,
Are UKIP resorting to threats now, you must have them really rattled. Keep up the good work but be careful.
Our Branch is fielding a candidate,
we have had approval to field this candidate
but we have been advised that a more suitable
candidate [a political climber if ever there
was one] wanted to stand.
As a branch we refused to accept this recommendation,
We are a very committed Branch with increasing
membership; we know we are successful because
‘Hope not Hate’, ‘Momentum’ and ‘Labour’ party
members have attempted to join the Branch.
We feel that we must continue, to show people that UKIP will overcome its problems and continue to speak for the ordinary voter who wants their Country back. Once that ambition is achieved we will then set about bringing the other UKIP policies to fruition.
A Party of the People for the People.
Well done Daisy! Please pass on heartfelt thanks for your courageous stand to all in your branch. Very best wishes, Dee
Viv, for some reason if you look at my latest posting it has duplicated itself, please feel free to correct it. Thank you.
Done
Thanks Viv.
As a Johnnie-come-lately supporter of Anne Marie, I had heard of her before, but never actually met her `till the other day when Viv introduced her on video.
Early this morning I posted a comment on that thread, which for me, is effusive.
Sufficient to say I considered her ideal for the new and ongoing image of “my” UKIP and that she should be made, not leader (she`d be wasted in that role on day to day detail); but “Strategist and Spokesperson.
Obviously that was before this news broke.
I am disgusted and along with Viv furious.
I would support any combined efforts emanating from UKIP Daily to reverse the position.
This is what UKIP have to say about Halal:
Many thanks and welcome back. UKIP would not ban Halal, nor would we ban kosher for the Jewish community. But we absolutely oppose the current situation where halal is fast becoming the default method of slaughter.
Halal is widespread. In hospitals, schools, prisons, airlines, even in supermarkets, where halal is routinely supplied as the only option “to avoid offending Muslims”. Even most Cadbury’s chocolate products are halal (and if you see an Easter egg without the word “Easter” on it, that’s because “Easter” easter eggs are non-halal). This also explains why the National Trust recently hit the headlines when they renamed their event as “Great Cadbury Egg Hunt” rather than their usual “Easter Egg Hunt” Below this email I list the Cadbury’s products that are now halal-compliant. As you’ll see, it’s a long list.
For an even bigger list please click on this link: http://www.foodguide.org.uk/
UKIP will scrap this. Halal should be clearly labelled so that every customer knows exactly what they are buying and can choose to avoid it (I’ll be one of those doing the avoiding).
UKIP will also launch a programme of far more stringent inspection on halal abattoirs. We have not forgotten the secret video footage inside a Thirsk halal abattoir with terrified animals being kicked, beaten, and dragged around in a brutal fashion. I am a meat-eater and enjoy a good lamb chop along with the best of them, but if all abattoirs were like that then even I would consider giving up meat.
Britain is a culturally Christian country and it is totally unacceptable that an outside religion (observed by only 8% of the population) should exert such influence over the rest of us, regardless of whether we are Christian, some other religion, agnostic, or even atheist.
I take the point that some people view halal as barbaric, but there have been kosher butchers in Britain since the 17th Century when Oliver Cromwell invited the Jews back into Britain, and there have been no problems with this. The same could and should apply to halal. It is the covert way it has entered the mass market, finding its way into the general food-chain, that we totally reject, and will put a stop to.
One final point. As halal becomes more the “default choice” this obviously discriminates against our own traditional British slaughterhouses, favouring Islamic ones instead. This too is quite unacceptable.
Please feel 100% free to share this with whoever you like, on the sole proviso that you include the whole thing, not just one part.
I have been awake most of the night pondering what to do about the take-over of our beloved party by the troughers and politically correct cowards that don’t speak and act for us.
If we ever want to get UKIP back, it seems to me that it’s no good tearing up our membership cards – though I would love to send mine to HO in small pieces. If we aren’t members, we can’t drain,this particular swamp. There must, hopefully, at Conference (how I wish I could attend and meet you all) be a vote of no confidence. (I don’t believe Nuttall will be prised out any other way). If there is another Leadership contest, and we have left the field, we can do nothing.
It will be no good without removal of the Chairman. I said the other day that his influence has been present in EVERY catastrophic decision – catastrophic from our point of view, and Britain’s.
France has the chance, Netherlands had the chance, even Germany, although AfD seems to be doing a UKIP at present, has the chance, all have an option to save their countries from Islamisation – Britain absolutely must have that option.
We still have the integration agenda, we just haven’t got the brave and competent exponent of that agenda any more – that s what we have to concentrate on giving people now, in time for this election – although, with the Leader we have, who is frankly hopeless, gutless and a joke, it’s almost mission impossible.
It goes against the grain for me to support such a coward, but, on balance, I think I must continue to do what I can on Twitter, looking to the future, not the present. In the meantime, we must try and get Anne Marie reinstated by the means suggested by Stout and Viv, is what I think.
I see Head Office are worried. Much worse has been said about our leaders and the NEC in UKIP Daily so for them to contact the editor now suggests a) the dead cat strategy to distract from the real issue of stabbing Anne Marie in the back and b) they area waking up to the effect on the membership. Not for the first time has the NEC taken a decision then been startled by the response from the membership.
None of us agree that Anne Marie is unfit to represent the party. Who is fit to lead us is the real question.
What a shame about Anne Marie-Like many old guard kippers ( Nigel Days ) I started out believing ,here was a party that was different from all the rest.A party that was prepared to speak out for what it believed in and would stick to its principles whatever. It had its share of “nutters & fruitcakes ” but so what , everyone has the right to an opinion & I adore “eccentrics” and “characters” – No way would I try to put them down but rather embrace their views and engage in discussion. I,like the majority, took in the Conservative defectors without realizing the toxic consequences and the eventual power struggle .The result of this power struggle ended up with UKIP falling into two camps (a) The PC Brigade who believed, in order to win votes ( and this was the most important part ) you must not say anything controversial and try to appease non believers.To this end UKIP would sacrifice any member who said something out of line or did not agree with the party line as determined by the NEC & (b) The old school,who still thought that we could say what we believed in and were prepared to face the consequences of these decisions,we were not cowards and would take on the Establishment/Intimidation/MSM/Political & Religious groups.
We then went through the leadership struggle which apart from being totally disruptive,also saw UKIP’S policies flip from side to side.Paul Nuttall’s eventual success gave us a new Manifesto,One I felt I could embrace and discovered Anne Marie who was everything that I felt UKIP stood for.I thought the new Manifesto could be the rebirth of UKIP ,the doubters would fall by the wayside and we we would end up as a strong/courageous party ready to take on the world.
Big mistake, I had failed to realise how many PC wimps we still had in UKIP,and it was these people who had the ultimate power.The resultant non selection of Anne Marie was a huge disappointment for me and many fellow kippers.Can I ask,Is there away.Anyone more knowledgeable than me,Could Anne Marie stand somewhere else,If we members had a mass protest,could we get the situation reversed and point out to UKIP what damage this has done with the possibility of mass member defections.
N.B Would you mind re-tweeting this thread as I feel lots feel as I do and we need to take some sort of action.
The branch could defy the decision – they chose their candidate – forcing Head Office to disown an entire branch and bringing the row into much greater public prominence. There would many supporting Lewisham against Head Office. Make them squirm.
Anne Marie could stand as an independent and trounce any official candidate.
Members can swamp Head Office with mail challenging them and pointing out that Whittle is now regarded as an illegitimate spokesperson for `culture’.
Donate to Sharia Watch (button on home page). If we all give a pound or two ….
These days I even have grim imaginings that the ‘Conservative infiltrators’ include people we’d never even thought about. Are the Conservative now running UKIP as their controlled opposition ?
My membership lapsed last year, and I have seen no persuading reason for me to renew it, so I shan’t.
A great shame, but the party I joined was full of promise, and had a formidable leader.
Now, it has neither.
My membership expires on Monday. I’ve been hoping against hope for the tiniest bit of good news, which might have persuaded me to stay. Thanks, Viv for this article – you have helped me decide. I’m out.
I might be now too. I will never vote for the Tories though. I suppose I’ll be disenfranchised again.
Stay and fight, Graham, it’s worth £30 – without membership you won’t be able to vote, and hopefully in September, vote of no confidence?
Anish Patel has listed the four NEC members who voted for Anne Marie as himself, Liz Jones, Paul Oakley and Katie Fanning.
May I suggest that when the others stand again for the NEC not a single vote for them. Let them learn what accountability means.
All of whom I am greatly pleased to have voted for – on J R-E and Raheem’s recommendation.
So we have no political party fighting for Britain’s independence from the creeping caliphate. Islam is worse than the EU. We know it, the mainstream media tries to hide it, politicians lie about it. And the UK INDEPENDENCE Party doesn’t want to hear it. Which makes us as bad as the SNP.
When UKIP made big gains in the MEP election and the BNP lost it’s representatives I remember Nick Griffin saying that UKIP would never offer the British people what they really want. And when that becomes apparent the British people would turn again to the BNP. I hate to say it but it looks like that he called it correctly. At least about UKIP not offering us what we need. And that was only three years ago.
UKIP does best when it speaks FOR the people. This current attempt to mainstream itself into just another bunch of establishment sychophants is heartbreaking.
The BNP now hardly exists and only as a money making operation so don’t raise any hopes there. The disillusion created by Griffin’s misrule destroyed morale among the majority of perfectly sensible people who could see UKIP’s limitations so looked elsewhere.
Farage created a party which was very radical within limits but attracted a cohort of troughers who now seem to make up many of its leaders. He was probably happy with that since no threat to him. They are desperate for a new trough now the old one is running out and you are all dispensible. The good news is tnat they are not going to get one!
I think all too many Kippers imagined it was possible to be radical and respectable due to the democratic nature of Britain and sneered at the ‘unrespectables’ in other groups as Farage did. This was sadly and tragically naive. He personally now says much the same as the ‘unrespectables’ used to.
The denouement of the troughers is imminent. But they seem to have their minds afflicted by a desperate case of hubris. This is common in party leaderships.
What happens on the other side? Total collapse of UKIP? As Rick implies in his comment about only three year’s ago things are now moving so fast all over Europe. Who can call it?
All the foregoing comments are lucid and pertinent and go to the heart of the matter.
A ship is scuppered “from within” and that’s what’s happening to UKIP.
Do you REALLY want 5 years of a Theresa May-led Conservative Government with a massive, uncontrollable majority and no plausible Opposition? They have an unenviable track record of lying to the electorate for 50+ years and are responsive only to their plutocratic masters.
Ukip were about to ‘re brand’ themselves- They have now – perhaps the Myslim Brothethood is still alive and kicking after all! I had, like you all, so much faith in Ukip. I gave my all for them. I’m sick to my halal fed stomach
Goodbye UKIP.
Dying of self-inflicted wounds.
Viv, Not wounds inflicted by members. For some reason, inflicted by those who call themselves spokespeople for UKIP. But they AREN’T SPEAKING FOR UKIP. That’s the point.
On 23rd March Gerard Batten MEP, in his blog here http://gerardbattenmep.co.uk/2017/03/23/yesterdays-attack-has-everything-to-do-with-islam-or-rather-mohammedanism/ (he has not been forced to take it down yet so hurry to read it before that happens), he refers to Islam as “a death cult, born and steeped in fourteen hundred years of violence and bloodshed, that propagates itself by intimidation, violence and conquest.”
Nuttall was asked yesterday whether he agreed with Batten and twice refused to answer. Yet, he was also reported in The Telegraph as saying of Anne Marie that the NEC would be reviewing comments made by “this woman” – not this person or this candidate but “this woman”.
UKIP’s policy on “integration” requires buckets of courage, of the kind Anne Marie has shown for 10 years, and the hierarchy’s attempt to disown her may be their most foolish and short-sighted move ever. I suspect it is in part Whittle fearing being overshadowed, general cowardice – Nuttall said the policy was not “top down” but driven by members in an almost don’t blame me way – and equivocation now by the leadership will undermine the policy, damage the party, and worst of all damage the cause Anne Marie has fought for these last 10 years. The mutilation of girls by the thousands with no successful prosecutions ranks as the greatest scandal and indictment of the establishment.
Sod what the MSM say. We are right and say so loud and clear.
Agreed – it’s for us members to speak out now. The ‘Leaders’ can’t throw all of us out, can they!
Viv, what do you consider would be the best way to do that. I’m sure all posters I have read on here so far would do it, bit it needs to be a concerted effort. Please let’s think of a way we can do something together, as you say, Viv, they can’t ban all of us.
The best and simplest way is, for now, to tweet this article, to send out the link to branch secretaries and regional organisers and to demand answers – not just about the decision to bar Anne Marie but about the way they apparently do not stand behind their own Integration Agenda, nor do they show loyalty to members attacked in the MSM.
Loyalty is a two-way street – something The On Top need to be reminded of.
They didn’t do badly in insulting and expelling Faragists candidates & membership did they ? Remember John Bickley comparing us to Nazis just after our hard fought efforts for BREXIT ? Never apologized..
Well they didn’t do too badly in expelling / insulting the Faragist membership and candidates did they ? With John Bickley comparing hard working loyal activists who had worked themselves to the bone for BREXIT , to Nazis on Guido Fawkes.. never apologized..
Thanks for the link, Stout. That is a great article, and eminently sensible, just what UKIP should be saying. I shall try now to tweet it. I wish I was more tech savvy!
Thank you for that link. I have posted it several times on Breitbart threads this morning..
Hi Barbara, well done, I can’t link only tweet. Have done so with the tag, expect deselection shortly!
UKIP does need a purpose beyond Brexit if it is to survive. Standing up for decent British values and humane principles, and opposing parallel legal systems such as Sharia would greatly help the party to retain its relevance. See this article by Anne Marie Waters:
http://www.ukipdaily.com/ukip-must-face-islam-die/
She is knowledgeable, articulate and courageous. Just the sort of person to take the party forward. In my opinion it was a serious error for the NEC to over-ride the wishes of the Lewisham branch, and prevent her from standing as their candidate.
The errors at the top of the party come about because of their failure to listen to the wishes of the grassroots members. They did not listen to branch members two years ago regarding Halal and Kosher abattoirs, see:
http://www.ukipdaily.com/ukip-policy-change-anti-pro-halal-slaughter/
I am going to trace this Anne Marie Waters and STRONGLY ADVISE her to start her own political party immediately because our BRITISH NATION needs someone like her – her in particular right now.
My heart just sinks.
Mine is roaring with incandescent rage …
This site is all the more important Vivian.
This is all so depressing. UKIP needs a purpose beyond Brexit, standing up against Sharia law must be on the agenda. Throwing away the knowledge and skills of Anne Marie is just crass stupidity.
I have a colleague who is a Corbyn supporting leftie. We often have heated political discussions over lunch. Apparently it is “racist” to want to ban face coverings. I do wonder what he will say in years to come when his daughters will be obliged to dress “modestly” in public or risk being spat at and sexually molested, as happens in too any Islamic countries.
Yes, this was crassest stupidity, and shows a lack of political nous which doesn’t bode well.
Barry and Viv,
Here, here, to be honest this decision about Anne Marie should be no surprise really, the UKIP leaders have been showing their cowardice on this subject for some time, but what is annoying is that they pretend to be something they are most definitely not. For instance you quote Viv that it was Peter Whittle who was the one pushing for her to be stopped , yet he appears to be the one most vocal when giving speeches and in interviews. How two faced of him which is what I said originally when I attended a dinner and he was speaking about Islam yet he knew about and may have been involved in that leaflet in Stoke.
I am beginning to believe we cannot trust any of our leaders including those in the NEC, the whole rotten lot need to go!
I agree Donald Duck.. I once thought well of Peter Whittle but alarm bells rang when he was ‘bought’ by Paul Nuttall and the ‘hierarchy’by being offered the deputy leader position. Wales is going to the Conservatives.. since there was meddling. Previously Nathan Gill had done good. Very disheartened now. These are careerists politicians.
In the best interests of our United Kingdom and UKIP, I had last year said and written that this rotten percentage of members must go.
I presume the photo above the article is showing Paul Nuttall and the NEC bowing down to the PC Brigade.
If UKIP can’t stand up for British values then who the hell can? We might as well vote for the LIbDems.
I just hope that after our demolition at the election we can elect people to represent us who have principles they will stand up for.
Stand firm Anne Marie there are lots of members out here in the real world who support you.