Today’s first letter, by our contributor Rob Mcwhirter, is about UKIP’s Constitution and Tommy Rpbinson:
Sir,
Our constitution says, in part:
“2.4 In pursuit of these objectives the Party will at all times adhere to the principle of full equality before the law. The Party shall conduct itself and its affairs in such a way that it does not discriminate against or in favour of any person on the grounds of their race, religion, ethnic origin, education, beliefs, sexual orientation, class, social status, sectarianism or any other basis prescribed by law.”
Sky News today [Ed: Thursday 27th September 2018] reports Tommy as saying:
“If I believe I’m morally right then I’m not bothered about what your law says.”
And:
“he does not care whether his message ‘incites fear’ of Muslims as long as it ‘prevents children from getting raped’.”
Clearly, he is a man of strong principles. But if the NEC invokes the “exceptions” clause and admits him to membership, surely, by his own words, he has confirmed that he might end up in legal trouble again, and this could come back to bite the party of which he would now be a member?
Is it reasonable to expect the directors to gamble their savings and houses?
Those wishing to see Tommy in UKIP should stand in the next NEC elections ~March 2019(?), on an “admit Tommy” single policy platform, and if elected, can then persuade their new colleagues to share the risk, in the knowledge that the will of the membership has been clearly expressed, and that they’re not asking the existing NEC members to do anything they’re not prepared to do themselves…
Respectfully, Rob McWhirter
The next letter comes from our reader Alan Breeze, also addressing the Tommy-Robinson-issue:
Sir,
I am writing as a UKIP Member, Branch Secretary and Parliamentary Candidate in 2017, regarding Tommy Robinson and UKIP.
Over the years I have studied with interest the developing life of Tommy Robinson, watched videos covering contributions he has made at Oxford debating with the Students Union, on Sunday Morning’s “Big Questions” and his many youtube contributions including his books “Enemy of the State” and “Mohammed’s Koran”. I have purposely ignored the labeling from the MSM and Left wing activists who like to present him as an extreme right devil incarnate and have concentrated on his message and beliefs. I conclude that Tommy despite having human flaws and frailties like the rest of us, has consistent messages relating to the abuse of young female Brits by nationwide organised gangs and the ways that people are coerced into following the Qur’an on a literal basis.
The thing that separates him from the millions of people with similar views and concerns is that he has the courage to stand his ground, put his life on the line and expose not only the actions of these vile gangsters but the cover up by the luvvies in the “Common Purpose” Social Services, Police forces and Judiciary who are scared witless by the threats from these gangs. The only way that our political leaders perceive that they can silence him from exposing their shortcomings, which would in turn lead to them losing votes to parties like UKIP, is to lock him away in a facility with a high risk of him being murdered.
This man must be afforded the protection of UKIP and whilst I had certain reservations about our leader following the Jasna Badzak situation [Ed: google that yourselves!], I have grown to like the way he has galvanised the party and been empathetic to Tommy albeit in a measured way expected of a party leader.
Many people will not look beyond the headlines and labels re Tommy and many more will understand the righteous sincerity of Tommy but know that Millions have been turned against him by distorted reporting and therefore will reject him because they perceive he will lose votes for UKIP but we MUST NOT lose sight of the fact that truth will prevail and we must be on the right side of the truth and not fall into the trap of the other parties making decisions for short term political gain.
In the same way that Brexit is a step change that will disrupt our economy, causing jobs to be lost in some sectors and gained in others as new trade patterns are developed, so the acceptance of Tommy Robinson will be a step change for UKIP, with many long standing members seeing him as a threat and resigning whilst others will see many new opportunities arising from his membership. UKIP is genuinely a party of the people and has an excellent down to earth Manifesto demonstrating the way in which it is in the interest of normal patriotic Brits and the membership of Tommy will complement our cause.
Respectfully, Alan J Breeze
And finally, the letter from our correspondent Septimus Octavius reminds us that events in other EU countries may have an impact here on us:
Sir,
The blue touchpaper has been lit. The Italian Government has now submitted its Budget to the EU, and as expected it promises vast increases in expenditure and an increase in the deficit, smashing to smithereens the EU’s rules for euro participators.
The background to this remains Italy’s 2.3 TRILLION euro debt, the parlous state of its banks, and the loathing the government has for the euro and the EU. Meanwhile, euros continue to flood from Germany to Italy under the TARGET2 system.
Who will blink first? Someone will, and if nobody does it first, Italy will do it on 15 October.
Respectfully, Septimus Octavius
The reality is that UKIP is still doing very little on Brexit. Leave.EU has raised 250,000 and is running outdoor billboards against remoaner tory Mps in constituencies that voted leave, suggesting that they get deselected. Would it really have been hard for UKIP to do the same? I don’t think it was wise for GB to take up the TR issue, nor for TR to ask GB to take it up, Brexit is not yet achieved and this is where the focus should be. UKIP should keep itself separate from street protests in any case to stay respectable to the silent majority of decent people who don’t like what they see in society but would include UKIP as part of the problem if UKIP is supporting street movements. One undercurrent that isn’t getting as much prominence but which was mentioned by WIlliam Dartmouth in his resignation letter was UKIP’s increasing homophobia, and he refers (although not by name) to the growing prominence of ex-Christian People’s Alliance leader Alan Craig, who has also emerged as a strong backer of TR and an ally of GB. UKIP is definitely leaving Libertarianism behind and embracing a kind of national christian populist creed. However, with 6 months left I think this should all be pushed to one side for now and after Brexit happens there can be an EGM for a change in constitution, but until then stop the fighting and actually do something! And stop trying to operate through individual branches, many are no longer functional, we need more national events like even leave.eu are able to coordinate. Perhaps the leader should be asking the donor group for money for key actions and the donor group could open up to the members to become a kind of crowdfunding vehicle? Anyway just turning in on ourselves is not a good use of time and money.
If Tommy desires to join UKIP then he should make a video stating exactly why so, and what positive outcomes he expects will ensue from this. And does he think it may have a detrimental effect?
Also he should explain what sort of role he hopes for – a main Spokesperson? Our Primary Spokesperson? Does he have aspirations to one day become Leader?
Until Tommy makes a video explaining exactly what his motivations and intentions are regarding UKIP his joining cannot be a consideration.
The second quote is misinformation. The Sky News item had a voice over asking a question that was not asked in the interview. Worse than that they placed Robinsons’ comment about a Dutch documentary as if it was his reply to this fictitious question.
I have made a complaint to OfCom concerning this.
Later in the interview he was asked about being known for this ‘incite fear’ comment which was related to the Dutch documentary, and his answer was long and reminded the journalist that he knows lots of good Muslims and that he has never treated them as a group. That answer was not used in the final cut.
He is daring and foolhardy. He sails close to the wind and breaks laws. This makes him dangerous. The State fear him because he can draw thousands to the street, he is supported around the world and he makes news. He cannot be ignored and so far the media and the State have been unable to crush him. Eventually they will win, unless he is supported and given a home.
Will he be a net asset or liability to any party? Here is where people split.
I think net asset, the author above thinks net liability.
My point is that the party’s directors need to decide on the net liabiliity question, and that those calling for Tommy’s membership need to be directors…
As a supporter of The Freedom Association, I have always respected the rule of law. But when the law is subverted and used by the ruling claque to silence debate and pervert justice, then I am instinctively on the side of the political prisoner.
The Leeds courts trial was thrown out by three appeal judges as fatally flawed. That should have been enough. But TPTB are so desperate to silence this man – Tommy Robinson – that suspicions must be aroused that further political retrials are likely.
Alan Breeze’s letter is, for me, right on the mark. If UKIP is to be the only anti-establishment party, then it has no choice but to support TR. Whether he should, or even needs to join, is entirely another matter. But TR deserves your support. Reading some comments here, I am not holding my breath. At least Bulldog Gerard has his heart in the right place.
Canterbury was upheld!
I am coming round to the view that the TR issue is a huge distraction from our main task – getting out of the EU in one piece and posing an electoral threat to the incumbent Party. I suspect that we could all get behind a policy of supporting Tommy in his quest for free speech and the destruction of the political correctness (if that is what it is …) that has prevented the investigation of cultural minorities for unspeakable crimes. However we don’t have across the board support for bending or changing the rules to admit Tommy – and we need to fall out over this like we need Henry Bolton back. It is not imperative for practical purposes that UKIP immediately admit Tommy as a member – that case can wait for now.
We might come together around a policy that says yes, UKIP will speak out loudly for the issues that Tommy has raised, we will continue to speak out against the officialdom that invariably prefers to shoot the messenger rather than addressing a problem of its own making, and we will speak out against any harassment (or worse) of any citizen (including Tommy) by our authorities, but UKIP has rules which are difficult to amend and we will not be diverted into a needless and divisive argument at this time – we have bigger fish to fry.
A pause for reflection might also allow time for his cheerleaders to encourage more support across the Party by pointing up where he may have been misrepresented by the MSM or by the authorities. I think we should dismantle our defensive / offensive positions and concentrate on the task in hand.
Agree entirely with your view James. This is a very contentious issue that could seriously split our Party. Your approach strikes the right balance. You have offered the sensible way to deal with this issue.
It is interesting to compare TR’s approach with that of Douglas Murray’s intellectual and carefully expressed views which criticise the religion of peace much more vehemently, fundamentally and aggressively than Tommy.
I mistyped my name; apologies. George
I agree about the differences between Douglas Murray and Tommy Robinson and after all good presentation is essential.
When listening to TR the constant lack of properly defined words and grammar is very off-putting and when I try and follow him I invariably turn off before the end.
He doesn’t need to sound like an old Etonian but he does need speech therapy if he is to attract the sort of voters that we hope will support UKIP.
Why it is suggested that he could occupy a position in the party from simply joining I can’t imagine. That is what happened in the past where those jumping over the fence expected to maintain their previous status instead of working their way up through the party like the rest of us.
Before anymore TR talk we need sound good reasons for UKIP to exist and that means well thought through policy initiatives. Nothing else will do.
I entirely agree with your comments as well on this issue. The UK Independence Party’s absolute most important priority at the present time is to ensure that this country leaves the European Union on the 29th March 2019 as a fully independent sovereign nation, able to determine our own laws within our parliament, able to control our own borders, and being free to trade with whom we like without imposed conditions. The party should also be holding Theresa May and her government to account on this issue on a daily basis. To be talking about or concentrating on any other issue including Tommy Robinson is a total distraction. Besides that, the TR issue has the ability to split this party right down the middle, and if the leadership is not careful in the handling of this particular issue, it will lead to a reduction in members and undo all the good work that has been achieved in recent months. In my branch there are a fair few members who will leave the party if TR is granted membership, and I am sure that this will be replicated throughout the country.
Septimus,
Do what on October 15th? Implement the budget?
Sky news broadcasts a steady stream of anti-brexit and pro EU propaganda. Day after day. If Tommy Robinson can get them in court then good luck to him. It will be David versus Goliath and no queensberry rules. I suspect before Tommy will be in court/prison before any case against Sky.
He has them by the short and curlies then…
Tommy Robinson is not just one man called “Tommy”. He represents all of us who are concerned and fearful of the evil effects of Islam.
Recall the “Je suis Charle” slogan. Many mainstream politicians faked their identification with Charlie Hebdo. Recall that these fakers had to be corralled separately. Probably for their protection from the wrath of normal people who can see through their deceit and hypocrisy.
How much of the opposition to Tommy is class based prejudice? If say Douglas Murray expressed a wish to join UKIP, would there be this level of opposition? We are all in this together, irrespective of class. Some may be able to escape to less troubled lands, using their money, however if Britain falls to Islam, so will Europe, and so too eventually will countries currently relatively unaffected at present. Time to choose to make a stand and save western civilisation. Or give up and convert. It is a binary choice, there is no third option.
Dear Editor. I know this will sound like nit-picking, as the expression “to Google” has entered everyday language, but please don’t encourage people to use this censorious and left-wing biassed company or its search engine.
Bing is better? 🤣
UKIP’s Dear Leader has tweeted a video by Mr Robinson:
https://twitter.com/GerardBattenMEP/status/1046056205771304965
in which the Sky News report is denied by Mr Robinson. In the video he attempts to demonstrate how his answers were edited by Sky News to manufacture a false impression. He says he is going to sue Sky News.
I do not know if Sky News has misrepresented Mr Robinson – I have neither the time nor inclination to watch a longish video, itself an edit, to see if Mr Robinson’s allegation is proven – but having seen some egregious bias on Sky News, I would never quote Sky News as a reliable or authoritative source on anything except its own perfidy. The probability of Sky News editing an interview to show anyone on the right in as bad a light as possible is a near certainty. We should not treat Sky News as though it practices principled journalism and complimenting it by quoting it.
UKIP’s Dear Leader appears to me to be trying to alter the character and direction of the party but without laying out the full political strategy for us to judge. While the party has the power to make exceptions to its proscribed list no coherent case for that has been made. We should be discussing whether it is time to do away with the list or whether to add to it (I’d put Sinn Fein and other terrorist sympathising and marxist organisations on it).
We have had a series of statements by Batten of his support for Tommy Robinson and lately how he would like to see him in the party. It was right of Lord Pearson and Batten to show concern for Robinson’s treatment in prison but the case for admitting Robinson to the party is not being fully argued. And why Robinson wants to join is not being made clear either.
As usual the party is being split by leaks on a divisive issue which is, it seems, an over spill of a long running battle at MEP level.
We need an EGM on the party’s future direction and character.
Whatever the ins and outs of our E-I-C warning on manners, I hope the following will not be read in that context.
But just as one of the cries in BBC “Question Time” about the question of Brexit is “I just wish they`d get on with it”
So regarding the question of Tommy Robinson`s “special” pleading for membership or the wider issue of acceptance of all previously banned members, my plea is I just wish “They`d get on with it”.
It is evident from what I have heard on here and elsewhere that it is an issue that is completely dividing our party exactly down the middle 50/50% (or near to), might eventually be resolved by an EGM, but even then be longer delayed by a reference to what passes as our FBI and we`re then back to the question of who among us has never stolen a proverbial box of paper clips, you can`t be sure of what other extraneous skeletons turn up.
So as I understand it change in rules necessitates a poll of all the members and even then we can take lessons from the conspiracy of WRECKERS in the Brexit enterprise, just as many WRECKERS would appear amongst the ranks of UKIP.
So I say sorry, leave the whole issue where it is now, I hope, kicked into the long grass.
That is not to say that I don`t support UKIP speaking out clearly on Islamic features that are inimical to our laws and culture and will eventually lead to some form of Caliphate, but at the end of the day I do accept that TR and his adherents could form some sort of similar caliphate within UKIP if given the seal of official recognition.
Support from their organisations and voting for us yes, by all means, but integration No. .
Yet again, NO rule change is required to admit Tommy. He applies, the chairman proposes exceptional circumstances, and the nec ratify. Simples.
…………..but, whether or not weneed a rule change for the TR situation, normally rule changes necessitate the assent of the whole membership of UKIP don`t they?
and I would think in what appears so controversial a subject such as this the chairman`s proposal should be put to all the members, or don`t you think so?
It’s a matter of people here consistently misusing terminology. Changes to the RULE BOOK, https://www.ukip.org/uploads/party_rules.pdf, can be achieved by majority NEC vote.
The CONSTUTION, https://www.ukip.org/ukip-page.php?id=07 requires a 2/3 vote of the membership to change, once proposed by a 2/3 majority NEC vote, or after 20 or more branches have held valid EGMs backing the proposed change.
Where there is any conflict, the constitution always takes priority.
Under the constitution, Tommy can be admitted:
“4.4.1 In exceptional circumstances the Party Chairman may, with the agreement of the NEC, cause to be admitted to membership any applicant who would otherwise be prohibited from membership.”
However, yes, I would prefer an electronic/Freephone vote of all the members (see https://www.ukip-online.info/online_ev_voter_pov.html), but am not sure how it would be funded…
Hello Stout,
I decided to take the time to check the unedited version of the interview. I also downloaded the machine transcript produced by YouTube.
Sky appear to have taken a comment about a Dutch documentary and edited on to it a question that they never asked him.
I have complained to Ofcom.
Spon – I’m surprised at your trust in Sky news. You need to check out what TR really said. The MSM distort our offerings unless it’s a live broadcast FFS (I know, been hatchet jobbed- edited to allow the virtue signalling snowflakes to put worst interpretation on it) so just imagine how they will edit TR & misrepresent him.
You know my views on this subject, I’ve been clear enough in earlier comments. Pleased to see Gerard is now considering Melanie Shaw & if you want an example of Sky’s duplicity just look at their reporting of the Justice for Women & Children rally in Sunderland- then check out their Facebook page for what really happened- and note they fight against ALL abusers not just the rape gangs associated with the RoP
Re Rob McWhirter’s letter rgerading Tommy Robinson.
Sky News is fake news. They deliberately misquoted him for the story headline, and took his response completely out of context. Tommy explains all here in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byMHT72YAcg
Sky news broadcasts a steady stream of anti-brexit and pro EU propaganda. Day after day. If Tommy Robinson can get them in court then good luck to him. It will be David versus Goliath and no queensberry rules.
Good luck with the libel case…
Robinson taking on SKY ? For editing an interview ? Does TR – or Gerard Batten, really think SKY would broadcast over an hour of the same old same old unedited whine because TR feels aggrieved?
If they do they know S.F.A. about how journalism works.
He simply is not important enough to matter. We have Brexit, we have conference season, we have a weak government, we have the Russians mucking about with a cyber war and an Indonesian tsunami to report on.
UKIP should back right away from this.