Update: The Results are in!
These are the results of the Leo Parade – and we have a winner!
In reverse order:
3rd place goes jointly to Leo Edward and Leo Jasper with two votes each
2nd place goes to Leo Oscar with four votes
And the winner in first place is Leo Crispin with six votes.
Honourable mention to Leos Arthur, Keith and Maximilian with one vote each.
The votes of those who added a second Leo were not taken into account , but the Leos who were second choice ought to be mentioned as well: Arthur, Benedict, Crispin (two second votes), Frederick, Horatio, Iain and Maximilian.
Thank you all for participating and commenting. We’ll now have a conclave of editors (again) and then see what the techies have to say.
~~~ o ~~~ A Parade of Leos ~~~ o ~~~
Readers may recall that a short while ago we talked about a new masthead for UKIP Daily (see here, scroll down). Some examples were put up, and our reader StuartJ produced some further examples which were less staid and more bold.
Our contributor ‘sponplague’ then took the bit between his teeth and came up with a veritable pride of Leos, in all sorts of design proposals for a possible masthead. These then were presented to the editors who picked the ones which pleased them most. Having culled the unsuitable Leos, we publish below the remaining 15 for you to scrutinise. You’ll notice that what look to be the same Leos are differing in the way “UKIP Daily” is lettered.
So – while we wait for news coming from the NEC Meeting taking place today, enjoy the Leo Parade, and do not be shy with criticism, not forgetting to pick the one you think best represents UKIP Daily.
Leo Arthur:
Leo Benedict:
Leo Crispin:
Leo David:
Leo Edward:
Leo Frederick:
Leo George:
Leo Horatio:
Leo Iain:
Leo Jasper:
Leo Keith:
Leo Lawrence:
Leo Maximilian:
Leo Nicholas:
Leo Oscar:
I see KipperCentral has gone to the wall. And even for UKIP Daily you can see that compared to the top all-time posts (most recent of which is the UKIP must face Islam or die getting 9,200 or so views) recent popular posts are down to several hundred. I’m afraid these numbers tell their own stories, interest in the party is falling off a cliff and the new leader has done nothing to arrest the decline.
Back from the dead! A new team are helping out…
I like Leo Maximilian and Leo Iain.
Vivian, I missed the first communication on this. My bad!
I concur with the number one choice: Leo Crispin (Choice N) and here’s why.
When using traditional fonts like Helvetica (the one used here looks quite close to Helvetica bold) I’ve found headings work best in lower case.
The eye is drawn to the extra detail and one gets the advantage of the artistically pleasing curves. The dot on the ‘i’ works particularly well as does the tail on the ‘y’. The ‘a’ used here is in a format that has stood the test of time and to my eye exudes strength, which is perfectly on message.
That said, clearly ‘UKIP’ needs to be all capitals. Methinks ‘ukip’ would look really silly! And capitals have their uses in logos. Think OXO.
The only part of the Crispin version that might be worth looking at is the ‘P’ in UKIP. I feel the hole in the P is a tad too small. The P in the Leo Jasper version (choice F) looks just right. To my eye it looks as if the ‘UKIP’ has been stretched a little. (That said I think the ‘Daily’ used there has also been stretched which I don’t like.) Aside from the hole I really like the ‘UKIP’ in the Crispin choice N version. I find it superbly strong. So, if the hole in the P can’t be made to look better it would be best to leave it as is. (If a simple stretch is found to work as suggested it might be worth consideration.)
A final word on the Jasper choice F version. Although having Leo appear larger certainly has its appeal, he has no border so I prefer Leo on the shield as he does in the Crispin choice N version.
This also has practical implications. I would assume that is how Leo will appear on other UKIP artwork like caps, blazers, coffee mugs, T-shirts and in adverts. I know UKIP daily is quasi-independent but I feel our masthead should be fully consistent with our corporate image. Of course, small details can be altered depending on context but the overall ‘look’ should be the same. Everything should blend in.
Finally, the logos with Leo in the middle don’t work for me at all. Leo is looking over ‘Daily’ and ignoring ‘UKIP’
Leo should be on the left, watching powerfully over all that follows him.
My apologies for all the detail, however it is important. Almost everyone notices detail although most do so unconsciously. That’s why people who don’t paint are nonetheless drawn to a good painting. It’s the detail that makes people prefer one image to another. Sometimes even small changes can make a big difference.
There are no plans for central branding to feature a shield, AFAIK.
I was not aware of any vote taking place (I obviously missed the original article), but my vote goes to anything except anything with Crowther’s Premier League rip-off lion. Keep the old logo. As should the Party.
None of them.
If I can step back and ask a more fundamental question:
In view of UKIP’s decline and tensions between this site and the leadership, should the site still be called UKIPDaily, or something else which broadens its appeal and is more inclusive of former members and patriots who are not necessarily UKIP members?
That’s a point worth thinking about, but I’d think while a title change might attract former members it might at the same time repel current members for whom this is the only place where they can voice their opinion which is actually read by the leaders/the management- even if they don’t do much about it, so far.
Given the dismal state of Party communications, UKIPD often is the only place where members can find out what’s going on.
I would be loath to deprive members of this opportunity.
Btw – why should patriots and former members not keep reading and writing on UKIPD? We don’t have a site police who chucks out everyone who doesn’t pass the smell test, we don’t suppress opinions critical of the leader, everybody is free to submit articles and post comments.
Tensions are good, otherwise the editors would be accused of being an official mouthpiece.
Conservativehome doesn’t ban non-Tories, so why shouldn’t we allow non-Kippers who play nicely?
Try using Control and the – button to zoom out so that you can see all the choices on the one screen in order to compare them all side by side. (restore your usual magnification with Control and the + button)
Having done that my personal suggestion is
Leo Iain on a yellow background with the words centred underneath, in smaller font “News & views for the Nation”
I would also use a replica of the official party logo lion head.
At the end of the day, Viv, as the editor, I’d be very happy for you, while no doubt taking all views into consideration, to ultimately make your own editorial decision – esp. after giving us so many variants on which to comment.
I hope these few thoughts help in your deliberations.
Thanks, but the EDs went one better – they used a test harness where they could see the candidate logos as part of a matching homepage and discussion page. As for Leo, purple variant IS the official one, and yellow used the official gold ?
Leo Oscar
Jasper – no doubt here. Catches the eye more than any other and this Leo is big and bold and means business. One doesn’t need to spend much time on this to realise “The eyes have it; the eyes have it”.
Hi Viv
I cast my vote for Frederick because:
a) I believe the darker coloured Leos ‘work’ better;
b) I like the logo in the centre as an integral part of the masthead, where,
to me, it marries the two words of the title quite naturally;
c) I prefer the sharper, more businesslike font.
Marie.
Thanks, but again, all 15 fonts are identical ?
That’s as maybe Rob, but they look different to my untutored eye – the corners appear ‘clipped’ on C, D, G, H, I and J. Whatever, I’ve revised my opinion and I think the overall effect of Leo Oscar is more effective and the gold underlining unifies the whole. Maybe using a larger font.
Agree they APPEAR clipped, but I double checked last night, and they ARE Avenir. Must be a resizing think – I’m not a fonts expert, unlike Minnesota Steve…
I VOTE LEO CRISPIN
Me too.
LeoJasper for me
Thanks – Leo Jasper no longer has ‘nul points’ ….
Trivia, fact fans: “Jasper” was the name of the cat in the pilot for Tom & Jerry, “Puss gets the boot” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=je9WotPzzQA
Ah, but I choose ‘Jasper’ to commemorate a beautiful, gentle, fox-coloured CollieX rescue dog: we adored each other …
I marginally favour Aethur. Although I would purple instear of black.
Ther’s something the matter with that lion.
Sorry,
my typing gets worse.
I’ve realised what’s wrong with the lion,he’s wearing a gum shield.
No he ain’t! It’s the same lion as Leo Jasper, only smaller and of course the gold, or ‘Or’ doesn’t show so well on the white, or ‘Argent’, as Toby further down explained in his brief survey of heraldic expressions.
I love the idea of a golden lion, sadly he just doesn’t seem to stand out enough though. There is no option of purple Leo inside a plain shield (or silver/argent) – so Maximilian is the all uppercase equivalent of Iain – one of those 2 then.
I’d prefer Oscar but with Leo having a white background. I would like Leo’s main to have the colours of the Union Jack though.
My suggestion:
All upper case text. As it currently is. Be bold! Not wimpy, e.g. “theguardian”.
A shield is a good addition. We must defend as well as attack. The lion is attack only. We must defend our hard-won rights and liberties.
Lions are a yellowish colour.
Therefore:
Edward or Arthur
Thank you for giving the nod to Arthur and Edward – I am quite fond of the golden Leos … and Arthur is of course named in memory of the Great 1st Duke of W.
I should have guessed! I was thinking along “Rex quondam, rex futurus” lines…
Dear Vivian (Evans),
My vote (on a transferable vote system) is:
1….. the old pound sign logo
2….. Frederick
3….. Crispin
4….. Benedict
Notes on heraldry (Source: “Simple Heraldry” by Moncreiffe and Pottinger).
The five colours that are used in heraldry are:
• Gules (red)
• Azure (blue)
• Sable (black)
• Vert (green)
• Purpure (purple)
There are also two metals:
• Or (gold, often depicted as yellow)
• Argent (silver, often depicted as white).
Normally colour is not placed on another colour, nor metal on metal, as being too indistinct at a distance. But colour shows up well on metal … and metal on colour.
The lions that break the rules of heraldry are: A, D, E, G, K.
Nobody has chosen any of those.
Regards, Toby, 01932-873557
Thanks for the quick survey on heraldry: very interesting, and it would seem those medieval heralds did know a thing or two, with the ‘Or’ on ‘Silver’ Leos not making the cut. We really ought to have been given the choice between a Leo and the £ logo!
But it’s nice to play around with all those different Leos …
Thanks, Toby – but I was thinking Lion’s head on wall in a trophy room rather than heraldry…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e6vokF8PeF4
I prefer the lion without the shield and no yucky yellow, so ‘Iain’ is my favourite but not with the rounded font, ‘Keith’ is a bit more businesslike.
Just to clarify, Keith and Iain use the exact same font, but Iain is in lowercase.
My views:
The gold Leos, Arthur, David, Edward, George and Keith just don’t stand out so well.
I have already opined that I prefer Leo not on a background but it seems I am outvoted on this.
I like Iain because it has no background and I prefer it to Maximilian because of the size.
If there has to be a gold background, I prefer the shield shape rather than the rectangle (Benedict, Frederick, Crispin or Horatio).
I prefer ‘Daily’ in upper/lower case to give emphasis to the party name (Crispin, David, George, Horatio, Iain or Jasper).
I guess that leaves me with Crispin or Horatio, with my final view on whether Leo should be in the middle or on the left. On this matter I have no view.
I agree with all your reasoning, Debbie, but edge for Crispin over Horatio.
During the experimentation stage,Viv was VERY keen on a coloured background for Leo, hence so many variants in that style – she was also fond of the gold Leo.
The shield outline, and middle Leo were my main inputs…
£ l£ke the one that has not got a football l£on on £t.
You mean the 1930s sunburst one? I was intending to look forwards, rather than retro ?
When exactly was this dopey lion change discussed with the rank and file? Who decided and why? ‘It is fashionable to change these days’ is not a valid answer.
This football logo has been just foisted upon us as a faite accompli.
Having a poll here is akin to asking do you want sex on the sofa, or upstairs in bed, my place or yours? Like the logos – none of the above thank you.
If you must follow the American example of having animal names for everything from helicopters to vacuum cleaners what about a BULLDOG?
For inspiration see front of Tim Shipman’s book ‘All Out War’.
Indeed, Biscotte: many agree with you, as articles by myself and others here on UKIPD have made clear.
So why are we playing round with Leos here on UKIPD? Firstly, we’re doing it now when there’s for once not much new stuff coming from the leadership sow e have time …
Secondly, unlike the ‘vote’ at the AGM, We want to have readers’ input and debate, as shown in the comments: we wouldn’t spring a changed logo on the UKIPD community.
Thirdly, a lion has been one of the heraldic animals associated with Britannia and Great Britain and has been used in statues, on posters, cartoons for centuries. The Lion symbolises both strength and Britain.
There’s even one couched at the feet of the statue of Oliver Cromwell in Westminster.
So to denigrate this symbol because the FA also has it – well, that just gets to show how deplorably lightweight the historic knowledge of many people is.
And finally! If we are going to think about changing the masthead and perhaps even some changes to the lay-out of the site, then it’s best to be prepared and to give the techies some idea of what’s wanted …
Cromwell: pound fans could quote him when lobbying HQ: “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken”
I notice you chose Crispin over Cromwell, but Nelson, who you did choose, has four!
While I like Leo Horatio, I do wonder that no-one so far has discovered their heart for Lion Jasper … too aggressive-looking? I find the show of predatory eyes and teeth quite suitable …
My concern with Jasper is that he’s so much taller than the rest of the lettering… if we went that route, better perhaps to increase size (and thus width) of associated “ULIPDAILY”?
That would be a possible way, but would reduce the impact the big Leo Jasper has. But since nobody except me likes Leo Jasper it’s a bit academic.
I’m going for Oscar, only because it is closest to my original ‘concept’ 😉
Nice work Rob by the way! Although I’m not keen on the designs using the more ’rounded’ font, somehow doesn’t seem to ‘look right’, not matching the style of the new UKIP logo. That’s just my opinion though.
Leo Crispin
Unsurprisingly, my vote goes to…..
Crispin!
Is UKIP Daily under the control of the UKIP Central Committee or is it an independent journal braodly supportive of UKIP’s aims but open to differing viewpoints? Does the existing banner contain a pound sign? Does the Daily Telegraph contain the green swirly thing thing at its masthead?
Your first two questions are of course entirely rhetorical.
You might however have noticed that the proposed Leos are not a slavish copy of the official logo.
It might also interest you to learn that no approaches have been made by anyone in the current management team nor indeed by the former interim leader to change the UKIP Daily masthead.
As I wrote on the occasion of first trying out a new masthead, this is about giving you readers a say should we change the masthead, and to find out which one pleases most – before we go and have a talk with out IT people.
Finally, let me say that I am somewhat surprised, given what has been published on UKIP Daily in the last year and given the heated debates in the comments section, that you’d even think of asking that first rhetorical question.
Now go and pick a Leo!
😉
Yes, my questions were all rhetorical. Actually, I rather like the original because of its symbolism, but if you, Viv, think a change would improve circulation, then I am fully supportive of what you decide.
Thank you, forthurst!
I’ve just had occasion to make this point in a private email:
if the proposers of that new logo had trusted all us members and allowed us all to debate this proposal, with all having a vote and the old £ logo being one of the possibilities, then we’d not be in this mess with so many rightfully being aggrieved.
Personally, I think any of the Leos on parade who retain the yellow/gold of the old logo are at least some sort of compromise.
I vote for the most memorable:
“And Crispin Crispian shall ne’er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember’d” ?
Crispin.