First of all – well done everybody who went and campaigned for Victoria Ayling, who achieved second place in the Sleaford by-election yesterday, putting Labour and the LibDems into third and fourth places.
Secondly – Paul Nuttall is right to say, as reported in the Daily Telegraph:
“If someone would have offered me second place at the beginning of the campaign, considering we were in the middle of a leadership election and the party resembled a bit of a shambles over the summer, I would have bitten their hand off. I think it’s a really good way to get my leadership off the ground. This is a small step on a long road.”
Indeed.
But it is a long road, and to travel that road with any success, we do need to be critical. While we wait for an assessment from those who were actually there on the ground, here are a few points which we should not overlook:
A usual in by-elections, turnout was low compared to the GE last year, with 37% as opposed to 70%. The surprise is that one party increased their % of votes while the other main Parties didn’t – and it wasn’t UKIP!
Here are the % of votes which must make us think very hard:
- Conservatives: from 56.2% in 2015 down to 53.5% in 2016
- Labour: from 17.3% in 2015 down to 10% in 2016
- UKIP: from 15.7% in 2015 down to 13.5% in 2016
- Libdems: from 5.7% in 2015 a rise to 11% in 2016
- Other: from 5.2% in 2015 a rise to 12% in 2016
So let’s take a look at the bare, naked numbers of votes:
The votes we got were 4,462, the LibDems in third place got 3,606 votes, and Labour 3,363 votes.
Not a lot of difference between votes cast for Labour, Libdems and UKIP, is there – especially when one looks at the numbers who voted for the Tories who won 17,517 of the total 32,891 votes cast. I suggest that crowing about Labour losses is, perhaps, a bit misplaced … and that it should give us food for thought that, unlike the Tory, UKIP and Labour vote, who declined according to the low turnout, the LibDem vote did not.
Let’s keep in mind that this was an election post-Brexit, in a constituency that had voted ‘Leave’, in a constituency that had a massive Tory majority.
While we all knew it was going to be an uphill struggle, while we all know that UKIP was entering this by-election at a difficult time for us, and while I am certain that our Party Leadership will take a very close and critical look at the action ‘on the ground’, how we did win second place so we can learn and do better, there is one glaring result which concerns all of us, especially in view of the coming Local Elections, and that is the rise, or should we say resurrection, of the LibDems.
This was a Northern Constituency, a Leave constituency – so what is going on? How did the LibDems do so well? Why did that happen? Was it due to the Richmond win a week ago? Or is this indicative of something else entirely?
I suggest that, post-Brexit, this result for the LibDems points to two aspects we disregard at our peril:
Firstly, we cannot take for granted that Leave Voters will automatically vote UKIP, turning from Labour to us.
Secondly, we cannot take for granted that Remain voters – who, as they keep reminding us, did get 48% of the EU Referendum vote – will put aside their resentment and vote according to local politics. They won’t, as this and the Richmond result show.
Since the triggering of Article 50 will be dragged out, since the Remainers are doing their utmost to scupper the EU Referendum vote, and since the relentless Remain propaganda will go on unabated, we must take very careful note of these results.
We know that locally, the Libdems are always running good and effective campaigns. We know that winning locally is our declared aim to get a springboard for the next GE. Therefore we must take the LibDems into account, and therefore we cannot afford to focus exclusively on winning Labour votes: people who voted in the Referendum do have another choice, as these last two by-elections have shown.
We must take on board that people who voted in the Referendum did not all vote for Leave, and we cannot afford to disregard those who voted Remain, in the fond but misguided hope that their votes won’t matter in Leave constituencies. Simply relying on Leave voters, simply assuming that they will vote UKIP, will be a fatal mistake, a mistake that will cost us votes and ultimately seats.
We must use the time between now and next May to work not only on our ‘boots-on-the-ground’ strategies, but on our overarching message. If that looks as if we need to fight the EU Referendum again, then yes: that is exactly what we have to do – because that is what the Remainers are doing, and that is why the LibDems rose from the ashes – and that is why we must be relentless in our fight for Brexit.
Does anyone know what Victoria Ayling stands for? Does anyone know what UKIP stands for, other than the UK not being part of the EU? Does UKIP know what UKIP stands for? Until the party gets real organisation, values and integrates the energy, enthusiasm and contribution of its supporters, and gets some PRINCIPLES, it’s just doomed to wander aimlessly and dwindlingly from bye-election to bye-election.
Thinnish FT I’ve been giving it a lot of thought today, and I think you’ve got it spot on in most departments. I think it has all fallen apart because we have decided we must ‘appeal’ to people, so we are trying to turn ourselves into an appealing party. UKIP actually appealed to people because it was resolutely UKIP, saying aloud what they knew was true but didn’t dare to utter publically. We did that about the EU, or Nigel did, now we should do it about the next thing we need to save our country from, the idea that we help everyone in the world but the British.
Start with hammering Teresa May. Saying that if she really meant Brexit she would have triggered Article 50, given business confidence and got our money back home. Saying we will hold her feet to the fire is tacit support for her stance.
Add in immigration problems, and Sharia courts, she was Home Secretary and did nothing.
Let’s go back to standing for things. Let’s stop appealing to anyone. It probably won’t happen, but wouldn’t it be lovely!
Dee,
Agreed, we are letting May off the hook far too lightly, let’s go for her jugular and bleed the Tories to death.
DD – let’s try and get it through to those that speak for us. So simple, and such a great strategy.
Dee,
It is unbelievably simple even a moron could understand it, so that does not say much about our leadership does it?
Dee,
I think I may have worded that wrong what I meant to say was: It is unbelievably simple even a moron could understand it, so what does that say about our leadership?
Let us remind voters of the Lib Dem sellout to get into coalition. For years they campaigned for proper PR – but at the first opportunity to gain a modicum of power and there we were, voting for all of that AV crap.
They lost their voters because their alleged ‘principles’ were simply bargaining chips with the tories. They lost support for these reasons and people (simple enough to vote LD) must clearly have goldfish memory spans.
REMIND THEM! KEEP ON REMINDING!
The Tories are not at all vulnerable in the next two years, and that parliamentary vote, the day before the by-election was a mega boost. Tories are riding high and will win general election after general election if May delivers the goods.
Labour are seriously vulnerable until they purge the marxist elements – then they will return to their default position in British politics if Ukip has not made a breakthrough by that point.
Happily, that cannot happen in a hurry.
Why not appeal to all? ‘Populism’ needs to be our mantra. Embrace it! Only the woolly liberals and hard left can possibly object.
Tories can hardly dare to attack the ‘public voice’ – their problem, even on their right, is that they believe in we-know-what-is-best-for-you-politics of the LibLabCon ruling class.
Be ready to fight Tories if they fail us but ALL serious funding must now go into vulnerable Labour seats in: The Midlands, the North East, Lancs and Yorks.
Replying to Dee, I don’t think we should be to disheartened it was after all a bi election. With a turnout of only 30% voting percentages were down but the LibDem vote was up. That tells me that the LibDems got all their supporters out plus a few for the Labour party and we did not. Come the GE if May hasn’t done what the electorate demanded or if she starts a soft Brexit I would expect a completely different result. That doesn’t mean we should stop working to displace this remainer government
Ken,
Nobody wins a prize for coming second!
Only hardcore Momentum types voted Labour. Remainers are coalescing around the Libtards as a seemingly moderate home for Blairites. The Brexit vote is split between those many Tories that will continue to believe in May to deliver and us. It’s only two weeks since we were up S Creek without a paddle or a leader. Personally I think it’s a miracle we only lost 2% of our vote share. We have staunched the bleeding, and now it’s a steady haul uphill. Again. And yes , the most urgent problem is the pitifully small proportion of members and sympathisers prepared to put their heads above the parapets. This in the end is due to the remorseless onslaught by the urban luvvies and most of the media.
Just a few facts following on from Toby’s and Seton’s earlier posts.
In the run up to the UKIP Leadership election Suzanne Evans (anathema to many UKIP members) received weeks and weeks of wall-to-wall coverage and deference from the BBC and other MSM.
During his ‘ less than a month’ campaign John Rees-Evans received practically no coverage at all from the MSM, except for a little, very late, just before the ballot deadline, after most votes had already been posted.
John financed and produced several UKIP videos at the last General Election and stood as a Parliamentary Candidate in Cardiff South and Penarth. He increased UKIP’s vote share by 11.2% above the 2010 election.
But, at the UKIP hustings, when asked, Paul Nuttall, the Deputy Leader of the party, said “I don’t know him. So how could I offer him a job?”……Hmmmm…!
In the leadership election Suzanne Evans received votes from about 9% of the party membership and John Rees-Evans received about 8.5%.
Suzanne Evans has been appointed joint Deputy Chairman of the party and Health Spokesman.
It seems John Rees-Evans, along with his fresh ideas, internet expertise, and modern communications skills and awareness has been ignored.
Is that what ‘unity’ looks like?
And, is that the sort of help that our hard-working by-election teams are sadly deprived of?
Paul Nuttall does indeed not know John Rees-Evans. How many members knew him or of him before his campaign? I knew him because he is or was a member of the Cardiff branch in which i am a member. Yes, he worked hard in the 2015 campaign – as did we all. But once the GE was over, he was not seen anywhere. He has not been to branch meetings at all – nor has he been to those in the Rhondda-CynonTaff branch meetings. He was not involved in the Assembly elections, he may have made videos, but we were not told about them. He was not supporting any of our candidates, doing what we all do: leafleting etc.
In the Leadership campaign, I’ve asked him repeatedly to write a statement for UKIP Daily – he didn’t even acknowledge my last e-mail and wrote an article for Breitbart instead.
Those who were working in Sleaford ought to tell us when JRE was there, supporting Ms Aying’s campaign …
See pic I sent you – hecwent with his whole family!
Mr McWhirter,
It was good of you to confirm that.
Perhaps those who were working in Sleaford will now tell us when each of our leader’s appointees were there, supporting Ms Ayling’s campaign.
I accept, of course, that Paul may only have had a limited direct aquaintanceship with John Rees-Evans but, as opposing leadership candidates, I would have expected him to make it his business to know about John.
A great deal of information was and is available to Paul, at the touch of a button, for this purpose.
For example:
Amongst others, the Welsh videos, including one with Nigel Farage, are available on the link below. Surely, Vivian, you were aware of these?
http://johnreesevans.uk/videos/
More general leadership videos etc are available on:
https://www.youtube.com/user/001TeamKilimanjaro/videos
Then there is, of course John’s website:
http://johnreesevans.uk/
Surely, Paul would have drawn on these, and other sources, wouldn’t he?
More importantly though, if John Rees-Evans was able to go from a late-starting ‘unknown’ to receiving not far short of 3000 votes in just over 3 weeks of campaigning, isn’t that an enlightening proof of the effectiveness of his communication skills and internet methods?
I’m aware, Vivian, that you published JRE’s general ideas in this field in his UKIP Daily reply to YI on Nov 18th 2016. Food for thought there I think.
Lastly, my thanks to Rob McWirter for saving me the trouble of including photos of JRE and family leafletting in Sleaford to clarify that particular point.
I think its hardly surprising that Paul wouldn’t pick JRE for any role as JRE made Paul look like a fool in the pre-hustings walkout media appearances, in particular the LBC debate that you can watch on YouTube. It’s surprising to me that JRE would follow a strategy of making his opponents embarrassed as obviously he would need to work with them in the future. If you don’t know someone, and then the first thing you do is make them feel stupid, then you can’t be surprised if they don’t pick you for top jobs!
Graham,
I think the leadership need to watch out because they may well start to haemorrhage what support they have to someone like JRE.
Graham,
I like to think that Paul is a big enough man to put the future of the party before any minor embarrassment he may, or may not, have felt in the course of what was, after all, supposed to be a leadership ‘contest’.
I have to add that I thought the first leadership election ‘hustings’ were poorly organised, and the second leadership election hustings were even worse.
Yet,it appears to me, that the people that organised both events are, at this time, still in office.
Well what did we all expect?.Is it just me?
I think Paul Nuttall`s comment was very accurate, I understand he said “If I was offered 2nd place before polling I would have snatched their hand off”.
a)This was a stone bonking safe Conservative constituency.
b) This area had voted for Brexit, and even though the previous chap had got cold feet about Brexit, this girl was sensible and plainly for it, why on earth change now?
c) without dwelling on it my opinion is Victoria Ayling was the last person UKIP should have been putting up for this seat. This is Lincolnshire, in the 2012 County elections, UKIP had a marvelous result – for a couple of days they were the official opposition – then personal aggrandisement broke out – they didn`t fancy Chris Pain as the leader and 5 members were plotted against and were virtually made persona non grata, so they took the message and left and became independent.(not allowed to be Independent UKIP
I understand V.A. and some other double barreled accomplice who got onto the NEC were implicated in the loss of the “Oppositionship” and UKIP became the laughing stock of the County
d) V.A. I believe is a renegade Conservative, after I am informed by the press (Daily Mail?) she was a renegade something else – perfect opportunity to get their own back
I mentioned this before in the NEC discussions thread, but I got it wrong there, I didn`t understand she was actually already the candidate when it was said the NED didn`t want her, I thought it was the local UKIP organisation who were objecting.
d)Didn`t they have a candidate who had fought the Constituency previously?
e) Overall UKIP “blew” the post Brexit political situation when they failed to recognise the vacuum left which should have been filled by a new cross party organisation consisting of LEAVE.eu and the GO Campaign, who were virtually uncontaminated unlike the parliamentary legacy parties in inbred EUism mythology, in fact as I said elsewhere it has all the characteristics of religious fanaticism.
Anyway UKIP “sold the pass”, contemplated their navels and the vacuum is all but gone.
As a Lincolnshire chairman I understand your comments only too well. My branch will be fighting one of the seats of the UKIP “rebels”. I am not a fan of Pain but the debacle after the county elections was appalling and will come back to bite us hard in May. I doubt Paul Nuttall will allow a similar situation to occur again though. I gather the local branch selected Victoria and she did her very best, she’s an active campaigner, so that’s a matter for them. I just hope that from now on HQ don’t put too many barriers in the way of good local candidates….and I do mean local.
Our basic problem here is that Tories actually believe May will deliver a proper Brexit, just as they believed Cameron would get a new and better deal from the EU. They are loyal to their party and not very bright.
We have to keep pushing home the simple fact that the Conservatives “remain remainers”. The appointment of a few disposable Leave ministers changes nothing, the lightest possible Brexit, by hook or by crook, is their plan. With Luck the whole rotten edifice will have collapsed by 2020, but it will not do so before May.
Locally, whatever you think of devolution, (personally I was not persuaded), huge amounts of ratepayers money were wasted by LCC Tories when they scuppered the deal, mainly because their leadership feared being downgraded by the proposed new Mayor. Had they pulled out to start with, a lot of cash desperately needed elsewhere could have been saved. That’s worth repeating endlessly.
Thank you Icini I appreciate your comments, I had thought I was a bit of “a voice in the wilderness” regarding what I hope is an unique Lincolnshire problem.
It is obvious the repercussions will linger on and I have no idea how 5 UKIP “triers” will fare when the repeat C.C. elections come on.
I know Paul Nuttall regards himself as the “healing the wounds” Leader, but if these long standing hurts remain simmering below the surface, UKIP will not return to full effectiveness. I believe the only way out is for a General Amnesty to be issued, a line drawn under the past and all those that wish it; be offered a welcome back to the colours.(and I don`t just mean Lincolnshire)
I agree with your political analysis that all the legacy politicians are really just a gang of “remain remainers”, as I say infected with over 40 years of EUism, just as it is acknowledged our children have been taught they are “children of the EU”, so have our political class (inc MSM and others) been brainwashed and become adherents and instruments of this dangerous monstrosity – the EU, and are disloyal and unpatriotic if they oppose it.
I do think there is room and a need for 17 million basic Grass Rooters to fight for our version the Brexit conclusion which is COMPLETE/TOTAL/HARD separation; there is only one legitimate unsullied method of doing that and that is as an UNITED CROSS PARTY organisation.
UKIP alone has been effectively neutralised and it should be remembered defectors from all parties are needed in UKIP, not just Labour. (I know a Liberal that supported BRexit, but it doesn`t stop him being a Liberal in local issues)
Surely lots of Labour voters who would never vote ‘right’ but think Corbyn has gone ‘too far’ made a byelection protest by voting Lib Dem? It’s what I’d do if I were of their disposition.
I’d be the last to throw cold water over UKIP’s valiant
effort, but in this neck of the woods in Buckinghamshire,
many people see UKIP’s roll as a successes, and now over.
They feel the Conservatives have now been handed the baton and expect them to ‘run with it’. I know many on here will not agree but we have to accept that this is how people actually feel. I’m afraid people are backing Theresa to deliver the goods.
Precisely. And to compound that by mimicking the other parties in chasing demographics is a loser. Proclaiming loudly that Ukip is now hoping to replace Labour and will be chasing disaffected Labour voters in the North, is hardly likely to retain those conservatives (small and Large C), all over the South, who at the last election finally had the courage to leave ‘their’ party and vote Ukip because leaving the EU overrode all else. That deed is done. Now, even with May’s tepid approach, they will think why Ukip, and drift back.
Ukip needs to speak for everyone, to proclaim its ideas and beliefs for the good of the whole country, to be the only party of honesty and decency in politics, and attract voters from all sides. Chasing one segment may achieve short term gain (particularly with the open door Labour has provided), but it is ultimately self-limiting.
It would be a supreme irony if, next time around, Ukip ended up with a clutch of MPs but far fewer votes nationally.
Ultimately self-limiting, Phil? Can’t see why. What matters is getting power, and we have to face the hard fact we’re not going to get many more Tories if we only offer Tory-like policies.
So think through the logic. The patriotic Labour vote is our ONLY chance for growth, and it’s not likely to come of its own accord – we have to attract it en masse. And it wouldn’t be too difficult to get middle earning Tories onside too if we pitch our ideas right.
Not really a supreme irony, more a supreme victory. If we don’t start winning some seats soon, anywhere, then UKIP will be destined to the dustbin of history. Need a base of a few seats to prove we are a party of power.
Graham,
What a shame that the constituents that have been let down so badly by their remainer MP’s cannot de-select them, there aught to be a system whereby they can. I think this is one of the policies that Carswell has been pursuing and so was Zac Goldsmith, perhaps that is why the Tories did not help him in Richmond.
Perhaps they were prepared to lose the seat than have a strong ‘leaver’and strong advocate for democracy in their midst.
One of the problems with the ground war is converting members into activists. The amount of vitriol poured upon us by the establishment makes that hard. Many who believe in our message are afraid to admit it in public. This is something we have to address and counter or we’ll never have enough feet on the ground come election time, it’s usually only a few people who do the hardest work. Many of my group’s older members are such great troopers that I feared for their health during the referendum campaign.
Whilst we have a reasonable number of members I am at a loss as to how to persuade them to be more active, we meet regularly, have socials, rarely disagree between ourselves, our websites are updated regularly, my own Facebook page at least weekly, we even have a UKIP pub, owned by a member but 15% odd is the best number that turn out regularly, with a few more occationally. Some help from HQ on that would be useful.
UKIP’s main problem now is that the Tories have STOLEN OUR CLOTHES.
Mrs May has converted to Brexit (and even to bringing back grammar schools), and all the Tory MPs have too (except for Ken Clarke).
So Tory voters who wanted Brexit can see no need to vote UKIP any more.
UKIP risks being seen as “surplus to requirements”.
Her rhetoric sounds convincing. Is there a chink in her armour, some evidence that she is not what she seems?
Now that the hurdle of Parliamentary approval has been overcome, what stands in the way of Brexit?
Only a possible duplicity by Mrs May’s govt.
She can still fudge it, and end up the “negotiations” with a deal which will say we have formally “left the EU”, but in fact will still leave us under its iron heel.
Is there any evidence that her conversion to Brexit is not genuine?
Yes, in two reports by the Express, mentioned in my Letter to the Editor of Ukipdaily.com of 17th November. These say that she is going to sign us up to an extension of EUROPOL’S POWERS, even AFTER we have left.
Moreover we have no idea of what she intends to do about the iniquitous European Arrest Warrant, which she promoted so avidly when she was Home Secretary. And which tramples underfoot our Habeas Corpus rights, and even Magna Carta (art. 38).
These are CRUCIAL powers, for the control of any State. Any body that can legally arrest and imprison people in a country, controls that country. Completely. They are even more important than control of the borders.
In a crisis they can be used to eliminate political opponents – as in Turkey. And as many say has happened in Italy.
UKIP needs to bang the drum about this, so as to put an expanse of clear blue water between us and the present government. And make people aware of this. Then the habitual Tory voters who are also pro-Brexit will feel less complacent about voting Tory.
Torquil,
I agree we need to go gunning for Theresa May, forget about Labour for the time being, they are in disarray and shooting themselves in both feet without our help. But if we look at May’s past track record and what is happening now she has been and remains pretty ineffectual.
She is all talk and at the moment I feel that her ‘Brexit means Brexit’ is all smoke and mirrors, we are heading for a Norway agreement as Nigel Farage suggested on QT. We need to be fighting this tooth and nail, why the delay in triggering Article 50 she has more or less got the green light from Labour who do not know what they are doing anyway.
She is just dithering about looking busy but actually not doing a fat lot, we need to expose her and keep up the pressure that she cannot be trusted to do what she says she will do. Our three main brexiteers are not much better I am afraid, bumbling Boris is very much like her says one thing to one person then another to someone else, who knows what he really believes in except his own self promotion.
David Davies is also all over the place by letting things slip out which are contrary to what the people voted for, and what has happened to Liam Fox? He has gone silent or has been silenced. The Tories should be easy to pick apart as we still have some hard line Brexiteers among their ranks, May is useless in saying ‘Brexit means Brexit’ what she really means is we are not leaving, it will end up some cobbled up agreement with us half in and half out.
That’s what May is an half in half out sort of person, but making out she is a tough negotiator like Thatcher, when in fact she is not even worthy to walk in her footsteps. She may have fooled the majority but she has not fooled me.
No other party could have stolen UKIP’s clothes if UKIP had had some real clothes and shouted out and drawn attention to what those real clothes were. Those real ‘clothes’ would have been indelibly imprinted in the public mind as belonging to UKIP, originating in UKIP, and anything from anyone else would immediately have been seen as a sham copy and pale imitation. But UKIP didn’t, they preferred to go with a one-trick spiv who didn’t build anything substantial and has now left the party in a state from which there appears to be no way out.
Three points.
1. I attended a meeting addressed by John Rees-Evans in Haringey during the last month and was highly impressed. I suggest he be given an appropriate prominent and visible role in promoting UKIP.
2. The results of yesterday’s Sleaford and North Hykeham bye-election confirm that we need to more urgently re-appraise our campaigning strategies, policies, and practices nationally; and, per constituency, and per ward. I am impressed that we currently have neither all the persons in places with the requisite attributes and capabilities to enable us achieve our desired objectives nor appropriate fora for such pertinent intercourses.
3. Paul has his job cut out converting these and other inherited problems into boosting challenges.
4. How best can we all(- or most of us) support him?
Seton,
Are you based in London, because if so I am too, perhaps we could pool our resources, I think that may be the answer to help us. We all need to get together in our relevant wards to hammer out some strategies, there is strength in numbers and better incentive to get things done I think.
I agree with everyone that Victoria Ayling was a credit to UKIP, but I think Ajax’s comment about UKIP’s leadership farce cannot be the sole reason we didn’t do better. After all, Nigel campaigned too, the hall was packed for his speech, and I thought that would help.
I also think we shouldn’t write off the Lib Dems – we think Farron et al’s stance ridiculous but he speaks for almost every remoaner – they are on the rise.
Tory Leavers believe in May to deliver them Brexit, for how long I don’t know, but the danger is, if she does, or manages to keep up the pretense until the next GE (which could be early) Tory remoaners will turn to Lib Dems, and increase their share.
So my analysis would be that Labour voters are our best hope, because Tories may well suck up a compromise Brexit in,the end if she can persuade them that it is in the best interests of the country.
The other people we seem to have completely forgotten about are the young, not yet affiliated new voters. Labour has seen them as a target (Momentum) and is being very successful. We should be a home for all those who are not brainwashed lefties, and there are a great many. BUT, we will never appeal to them unless we can drag ourselves into the on-line world of the 21st Century – how I wish our Leadership would understand this. Their votes and support could make all the difference, and judging by online comments, we aren’t getting it. I hope a new modern NEC might help, we ignore them at our cost.
Dear Dee,
Has John Rees-Evans been given an important position (perhaps including on-line) yet?
Regards, Toby, 01932-873557
Not that we know of, I feel he is being completely ignored for some reason.
Hi Toby
Not that I know of. Worse, many people are now being enticed to Marty Caines DDIP Online party – because they are disillusioned. I believe to try and counter that John has applied to get a Direct Democracy Party within UKIP up and running, but I have no further information on how or if it is getting on. I really think that if he is ignored for good many more people will leave. It is frustrating that his talents aren’t yet being utilized – like it or not, the Party needs someone like him up front in some way, he has inspired loyalty especially but not only among the young, from what I read online.
Return regards, Dee
Dee,
I think there must be a reason why they are ignoring him, could it be that he is connected to Breitbart News?
As far as I know he isn’t. I have never seen a comment and although Viv said above there was an article, I don’t remember it and he isn’t a contributor. Raheem may have done something about him. I am a BB – er and he did have huge support there from commentators.
It’s a mystery to me, DD, he is a Faragist in that he says Nigel is his hero, but why would a useful talent, any useful talent be ignored.
The man that shot the videos for UKIP in Wales produced by JRE has left UKIP.
Perhaps then Dee, they are frightened he may outshine them or worse still critisize some of their strategies!
Guys, watch the LBC debate on youtube. JRE humiliated Paul (and SE). In any human interaction, first impressions count the most, and this was one of the worst I have ever seen. I am sure he has many qualities but why would he act that way on a national platform in front of his future leader?
OK Graham,
I have watched all the LBC debate as well as listening to snippets before, this is my observation. Firstly, I do not think JRE humiliated Paul Nuttall at all, in fact, Paul looked exasperated at times because JRE ridiculed himself, he tied himself up in knots basically.
He seems to think he is some sort of ‘clever clogs’ and perhaps he is, but the way he goes about it is to make the others look inferior to him. Perhaps some people like that approach in a leader but have we not had that for the last forty odd years, and are now sick of it.
Plus, the more I listen to him and certain things he says convinces me that Farage and Banks are somewhere there in the background, that worries me quite honestly. In effect, I do not trust him and in order to follow someone I would really need to do that. So, for those reasons I did not and will probably never vote for him in the future
Guys, as mentioned elsewhere PN and SE were perfectly aware who JRE was before the LBC debate and what his core reform proposals were. To suggest otherwise would insinuate that neither of them knew who Farage had utilised to rescue the calamitous Welsh Assembly campaign, that had received no HQ/NEC support. Surly PN and SE have adequate situational intelligence abilities? JRE did not humiliate PN and SE, they did that to themselves by not having the ability to engage in reasoned and measured debate about the core problems facing UKIP. If UKIP is incapable of dealing with the corruption/cancer that is alienating the activist base and the organisation structure that allows that corruption then it is doomed. The fact that neither individual can get their minds around the concept and potential of Direct Democracy is terrifying and belies an establishment mindset.
Also, I have seen comments about not been able to turn members into activists – in my area I have many activists who worked for the party because of Farage and our local messaging but cannot bring themselves to become members of the national party. A party that is seen as corrupted, incompetent and something of an embarrassment. We really have to do better.
That the Grimsby Boadicea managed to shore-up 10% of the UKIP swing from the 2015 GE to the degree of only losing 2% given the utter farce that has been UKIP’s leadership all over the media for the last 6 months, is no small achievement.
Conclusions:
#1. UKIP needs to develop a by-election special ops. team that’s on standby to go into action at the drop of a hat when these opportunities present themselves, I’d take a close look at the one the LibDems had in the 1990’s-2000’s led by Chris Rennard for ideas on structure & tactics.
#2. England will not vote for a Communist politician, therefore Labour with its current leader is now v. vulnerable & UKIP is the only party in its Midlands & Northern heartlands for its old voters to switch to. (A by-product of the Corbyn lame duck is that, unless May is brought down by an internal coup within the Tory ranks in Westminster, we’re stuck with her for the best part of a decade, this will have extremely grave consequences for the Kingdom).
#3. Nuttall is off to a flying start, the MSM interviews he’s been doing have all been impressive, but he needs to start soon expanding his commentary horizon to express the views of the Man on the Bootle Omnibus. There are targets of opportunity out there by the score now, such as Osborne raking in highly questionable cash payments for “speeches” after services rendered whilst in Downing Street with £ printing at 0% to fund the Square Mile/Wall Street out of control casino, whilst in charge of England’s Treasury, which he has wrecked with debt in the process. The people aren’t stupid, & they can see what’s going on but there’s no-one on the political football pitch giving voice to it. The politician that can harness this public disquiet at this behaviour by the addled Liblabcon political order, will reap electoral reward, as did Trump in the USA.
Regarding your #1 proposal for UKIP: I couldn’t agree more – and I wish that Paul Nuttall would give that ‘portfolio’ to Jonathan Arnott whose report on how UKIP won that by-election in Huddersfield (I think, can’t remember now offhand) showed exactly how to get from 0 to 49% …
Hartlepool.
Thanks – I knew it was somewhere up North and started with an “H” … and that UKIP Daily readers would correct me!
😉
Yes of course we need to keep in the Brexit fight – but the “overarching message” has to be a lot more, Viv.
When will we get it into our heads that going for the Labour vote isn’t just our main chance – it’s our ONLY chance – and that means making our policies more attractive to Labour voters?
That doesn’t mean writing off Tory voters. What we have to do is peel off middle-earners from the rich, who until now have been so succesful in conning the middle classes they will lose out if they don’t keep voting Tory.
So please, any Party grandees who might read this – start thinking laterally, use the talent and imagination in the Party and start putting us on the offensive with policies like rail nationalisation, progressive taxation, a national investment bank – etc etc.
Otherwise nothing will change, and we will have NO chance.
Obviously, ‘going after Labour voters’ cannot be the be-all-and-end-all.
We have to ask ourselves why, for example, the huge number of former Labour voters didn’t come and vote UKIP in Sleaford yesterday?
As I said: we need to keep in mind that we are still having to fight for Brexit, again and again, constituency by constituency. We cannot be blasé about getting all the Leave votes. We must recognise that the Remainers are not going away but are also going to outspend us and will in all probability make tactical pacts, as the Libdems allegedly did with the Greens in Richmond, where -again allegedly – a sum of £250,000 changed hands: http://order-order.com/2016/12/07/leaked-emails-show-greens-plotting-libdem-electoral-pact/
People like to go on about complexity Viv but like most things in life it’s pretty simple.
There was nothing for patriotic Labour voters to come out for. They’ve done their bit for Brexit and controlling immigration (or at least so they think); they’ll never vote Tory of LibDem; but above all there’s nothing in the UKIP offering now to enthuse them. Indeed the perceptive ones realise that UKIP is still dominated, in economic policy terms, by our own brand of Thatcherism – and that neoliberal market economics is demonstrably failing them. They’d rather just not bother, but hope their own party becomes electable again one day.
We have an open goal before us but so far we seem to be just hoping the wind will somehow take the ball towards it. Did you notice how Jonathan Arnott wouldn’t engage with me the other day? He might have helped win a local by-election – but I’m talking STRATEGY!
You raise very interesting points, but do keep in mind that we must also keep our base in the SE and SW, where people do prefer “our own brand of Thatcherism”. we cannot afford to play the one against the other, especially since it was the old working class who voted for Thatcher.
Regarding Jonathan Arnott: it’s not for me to defend him, but I hope you realise that he did and still does have a few things on his plate which just conceivably might be of more importance than answering comment posts on UKIP Daily – much as we’d all like him and other Party bigwigs to do so.
Viv, he managed to converse with everyone else!
Defo not playing one against the other – I’ve suggested how we can get both on board. But there is no mileage in trying to out-Tory Tories.
That slipped by me – I’m not (a physical impossibility) hovering over UKIP Daily 24/7.
But I agree: trying to out-tory the Tories is daft, as is, likewise, trying to out-Labour Labour.
But we all seem to agree our priority is getting that Labour vote. Well a fairy godmother might give it to us on a plate without having to do anything different I suppose – but she’s already come along in the form of J Corbyn, and we mustn’t turn her offer down.
Your great work on our behalf is most appreciated, keep going!
We also did a deal (perhaps not directly, but an agreement nonetheless) in Richmond not to run a candidate. In hindsight this was probably also an error as it further emphasised that Zak was a ‘brexit’ candidate backed by UKIP (featured by LDs in their leaflets). Our biggest problem here in SW London is not the dominance of the tories but a resuscitation of the libdems, and we shouldn’t do anything to support their revival. Also, we should back Heathrow as a source of new jobs for working people and Gatwick is too far south for the midlands and northerners whereas Heathrow is reachable. It has been there for 60 years, nobody who lives in that constituency didn’t know that when they moved there. We should take the national view and say the whole of the UK, including midlands and north, has a stake in heathrow and it can’t be held hostage by a bunch of internationalists nimbys living in Richmond.
Why anyone votes for the “liberal” “democrats” – who are neither liberal nor democratic – beats me. They must like going for the soft option, neither one thing nor the other, sitting on a comfortable fence where they will never be accused of being too extreme, standing in the middle of the road while everyone else whizzes by keeping up with the times. Dangerous place, the middle of the road.
The LDs are a hybrid corpse party, made up of the leftovers of the Liberal Party which in itself was a rump of the Whigs, the Tories’ old sparring partners; plus the debris of that failed party the Social Democrats, illegitimate offspring of Old Labour. The Libs have been staggering along like a dying man for 100 years and Little Nicky’s brief taste of power as Cameron’s sidekick (and I’m sure that Dave often longed to kick Nick) is as near to Downing Street that they’ll ever come before fizzling out for good.
I suppose Remoaners are more likely to vote for Limp Dumbs, it being their declared policy to have a 2nd referendum and overturn Brexit. However, I noticed that not all LD MPs voted against the government in Wednesday night’s Article 50 vote: five did, four didn’t, so they were as wishy-washy as usual.
As you may have guessed, I feel nothing but contempt for the Limp Dumbs and consider votes for them as nothing but protest votes when some of the electorate are feeling ticked off with the Conservatives and dubious about Labour; or when they actively abhor a sitting Labour MP and hoy her out, as I have personally witnessed in a local constituency.
Thge LDs are currently taking up 9 seats in the HoC, a terrible waste of space. After the next election, let us hope that MPs of a stronger colour are sitting in those seats.
WELL DONE VICTORIA
Victoria Ayling deserves our thanks and support for her sterling efforts in the Sleaford by-election. The election was called at short notice and co-incided with UKIP still in civil war mode and Victoria was chosen late – a gross mistake by head office as Lincolnshire based Victoria should have been an automatic shoe-in.
The libdems represented themselves as the party of EU friendly remainers and garnered 11% of the vote. The conservatives had a very good candidate in a strongly eurosceptic who has promised delivery of BREXIT thus there were two candidates for the BREXIT vote and Lincolnshire is these days strongly tory. However there is one strand of local life that is beginning to happen more frequently and that is a serious candidate of a regional based party. Joining Mebyon Kernow, Northern League, Stoke Independents, Yorkshire Party, Wessex Party comes Lincolnshire Independents who are well entrenched at District and County Council level. Indeed they are doing far more than the somewhat ridiculous Yorkshire Party ( all bluff and bluster). Marianne Overton their candidate represents a serious long term threat to the libdems because they campaign on local issues. In this regard I am hopeful that the libdems will continue their decline in most – but not all of England.
I am tempted to opine that this anti big party sentiment is growing in Wales and Scotland as well and that many retired people who are not party political find an affinity with local issues and a specific local party especially if they are from a long established family. My prediction is that either UKIP becomes really big in Geordieland or a Northumberland Party comes into being with a specific eurosceptic and regional bias. Or perhaps they will find common cause with the Yorkies and Lankies and create a proper Northern League.
UKIP have only a window of opportunity of a few years to defeat Labour if they too are not swept away.