Many of you will have noticed that there’s now a new system for comment posts in place here in UKIP Daily. For most of you, all that’s required now is to tick a box declaring yourselves to be human (“I am not a robot”).
However, we had complaints from some comment posters that they now have to choose between pictures, and that these pictures are getting more and more frustrating.
“Mr Bav” sent me a screenshot – which I cannot reproduce because this would make his email public – and I was horrified. I’ve not had this problem, and neither did apparently most of you. What was going on?
Our excellent IT man explained to me that this new software we’ve now installed is based on a machine-learning system and is designed to keep out what are called ‘spambots’, i.e. machine-generated posts trying to sell something. If you check out your spam filter in your email account you’ll know what I mean.
Apparently, depending on your IP (Internet Provider), this new comments software generally regards you as ‘harmless’, but if you’ve been accessing many different websites, it may think you’re up to no good. Similarly, if you’re using different IPs, e.g. posting from your tablet or smartphone and then later from your PC at home, or from different PCs while visiting friends, or if you use some networks to protect your anonymity, this new software may think you’re a robot and then generates these picture puzzles which only a human, not a spambot, can solve.
I was told that you’ll get difficult pictures first, and when you can’t solve that puzzle, you get even more difficult ones. When you do solve them however, they will get easier until the machine-learning comments software has in fact learned that you are you and indeed not a robot. That means in effect: don’t give up and do persevere. The more often you do so the quicker the programme ‘learns’.
But: are there alternatives? And what are they?
We could for example go back to the old system where you had to fill in the Captcha Code … This was something many of you found very hard. We had numerous complaints, some rather vocal, and that was the reason we changed to this new system.
We could go to a system where you’d have to log in, creating an account, and then just post comments.
Before you say ‘let’s go for that’, here are some reasons why this is not such a good idea: in the first place, anybody at all could then register, leaving the site open to trolls such as “Mrs Merton” or “Cap’n Mainwaring”, if you can recall them … and we editors would then have to painstakingly remove them and all their posts – after the fact.
Secondly, such ‘open’ system would generate more comments (surely a good thing …?) which would still have to be moderated by the same tiny handful of UKIP Daily editors. That moderation is a must is shown by the current BoJo saga where comment posts on his facebook page, posted by whoever wants to post with a facebook account, has now left him open to further accusations of racism and islamophobia.Think what would happen if or rather when Momentum and HnH get cracking on such open system where us editors would be overwhelmed by mass comments.
Of course, if we had two or three extra “moderators” for every day … (anybody volunteer? Just one won’t hack it …), that might alleviate such mass invasion, but would leave us open to accusations of censorship when we delete such comment posts en masse. Also, please do keep in mind that ultimately your Editor-in-Chief’s neck is on the block, both with regard to UKIP HO and the MSM and other vested interests who are bent on smearing us, so moderation is a must.
So – what to do?
Go way back and make everybody solve arithmetic puzzles before they can post?
Go back a little and reinstall the ‘Code’ Captcha, i.e. the hard-to read (on purpose) numbers which so many of you hate?
Keep this one?
Use ‘disqus’ and let the chips fall where they may? (Disqus also needs to use moderators on top of moderators which are sitting in the USA …)
Anybody know of a better system?
Over to you!
I don’t care which system you use if it would stay for a while. Although I do find the Qs disturbing.
I like the new system much better! Its fun proving I am not a Robot – if only for my own sake 🙂 (Joking!). Its funny when it wont belive we are not robots and the one on here has been fone so far. Thankyou for changing it. I must admit the old system of typing in letters was tricky on an iphone when on the move and I often gave up!
PS
I
ve just struggled for 15minutes to get that last posting through - PLEASE get rid of the present system, I could have used that time reading the rest of today
s articles, as that was what I intended to doHi Viv,
You know my problems with this present picture system as I complained directly to you and you advised various ploys and persistence was one of them.
In fact after I spoke to you the first comment I posted went through without the need for solving pictures, unfortunately that was a “one and only” and every one since has been a tedious “battle” with the pictures – luckily I have “won” every time.(and I can
t see them clearly on my steam driven laptop - obtained from a car boot sale via my golf partner)
I did complain once about the previous letters/numbers/colours system, but quickly learned the "trick" of re-clicking the revolving arrow and found it to be GREAT, although I often fell down with the Capital "Q" and the number "1"/ "l"
If you can change horses please go back to the previous system or even the elementary sums, I know we are not supposed to HATE, but in this instance I do.
One other problem we used to receive notification by Email of what we had commented on as well as a separate advice of comments received from others, now we only receive notice of a reply, could we please go back to the earlier system or even amalgamate the two, as I often find it difficult to find (and/or forgotten) my original comment, particularly if it has disappeared from current discussion subjects.
Finally somebody mentioned Google is at the bottom of these Kapcha troubles, perhaps I am having problems because I am at war with Google, I refuse to change to Chrome and in fact I stick to Yahoo as my original Email provider (10 years plus) and I dont really know what “Apps” are so refuse to load them and I know Google are at the bottom of this.
I refuse to be taken over and somebody mentioned they are a danger to Free Speech – I agree!!
I`m glad we got rid of Disqus!
All very sinister. I have had 10-15 attempts to get through the picture puzzle before and nearly abandoned this site altogether but Viv has explained all…. Clearly i am a robot….. ; )
You clearly are not – but as I’ve tried to explain: it’s a question of teaching that software.
It also occurs to me that perhaps reducing the size of the site on one’s screen might make solving those puzzles a bit easier.
Sinister yes maybe, but nothing to to do with Viv or the UKIP Daily team. This reCAPTCHA thing is Google technology, so for the most part I need say no more, you can all draw your own conclusions.
Put it this way, Google ‘learns’ from your actions that you carry out on the internet. As well as your IP address, it can also track stuff you do using your Google account, and it probably also links in your name and email address.
Just think, if you were somehow on a ‘hit-list’, would it not be feasible for Google to then deny you access to certain internet resources? Like making your reCAPTCHA puzzle impossible to solve? Or to ‘fail’ you even though you were correct? Just think, if all websites with comments sections used this reCAPTCHA widget, how easy could it be for Google to deny individuals their ‘freedom of speech’.
There’s more to this than just ‘machine-learning’ I’m sure of this, and we will no doubt uncover more sinister aspects to this ‘control of the internet’ in years to come…
In fact, as I write this, I’m sensing another “problem-reaction-solution” moment coming on…
This is just an idea, so bear with me.
On registration, whereby users can register and create an account, the facility is there within WordPress to have admins ‘approve’ new registrations. There may be a little work involved, but surely if the ‘regular’ posters and commenters here could create an account and get approved, that would be a lot of moderation taken care of, as us ‘regulars’ could be trusted to follow the rules and not turn into vicious trolls (I hope so anyway!)
You could still allow ‘guest’ comments, which would need to be moderated as currently, of course.
One of the downsides with WordPress being such a popular blogging platform is that there are numerous automatic scripts out there that look for websites with the standard WordPress login and register page names (eg http://myblog.com/wp-login), I believe there are plugins available though that will allow the changing of those page names, which foils a lot of scripts, and stops a lot of automated registration attempts.
Whatever you decide to do, unfortunately as they say ‘you can’t please everybody’.
I do prefer the current captcha system, but then again I’m not a robot. 😉
Thanks, Stu – I’ll see what our resident IT whizz has to say to this proposal. I would say that there may well be security issues. I was amazed when he told me that one of our plug-in designer sites now also uses this current Captcha set-up when one tries to log in to their site.
No probs with capcha code or negative robot tick. Which ever system you think is best to keep up this great media community bringing together members and furthering the interests of UKIP. UKIP daily is a real assett for furthering the interests of the Party and I for one am most grateful to the editors for your committment and expertise, you do a great job. Onwards and upwards.
Thanks for your support and kind comments Jake.
Here, here Jake Bennett, and your support for the ‘Team’ running UKIP Daily, they certainly do a superb job and my life would be very uninteresting if I could not come and read the latest daily news and readers comments on this site, as I always look forward to seeing what is written here.
Can we program it to ask people to identify pictures with UKIP ad vans in them? 🤣
Viv, the present system is great just a tick in the box and post goes every time. I have just checked my spam box and nothing in it. Perhaps the people who are having difficulty have no spam protection. I did find the Captcha code a bit of a pain at first, I could always read it but it never posted first time. Someone here posted to refresh the code and it always worked.
To answer your question about which option I would say keep this one.
Thanks, Alec –
it does work fine for most (just tick the box saying “I’m not a robot”), but there were serious complaints and I’ve been sent screenshots of those ‘picture puzzles’.
I would like to stick with this and hope that those who need to puzzle out pictures can get the software to ‘learn’ by persisting.
Some people always complain.
If you gave them a gold bar to keep, they’d complain it was too heavy.
Or say where’s the slice of lemon 🤣
clearly my comments are not worth reading, as I never realised that you could just tick the box, I’ve been trying to prove to the machine every time. I’ve assumed that the machine would assume that I had assumed that I had to. ???
All such systems are a pain. I didn’t mind captcha, but can live with pictures, too.
Good morning Viv.
You and your colleagues do a great job of keeping our comments fair and amenable.
Without good mods we would be playing last word wins or gradually ramping up arguments and upsetting each other.
The only difficulty in using various Captcha codes is that a lot of people are viewing via a small phone screen and our eyesight is getting worse as we get older.
A small inconvenience is a price worth paying to keep the crazies away.
Keep up the good work.
Thank you, Bryan, for your kind words! We’re trying to keep on top of things …
These Captchas, i.e. this machine-learning software is now ubiquitous, others (servers, software companies) are using it as well.
Yes, it will be painful on smartphones with their small screens, and yes, our deteriorating eyesight doesn’t make things comfortable, but it’s a constant (machine) battle between bots and humans, and frankly, the thought of having to moderate 60, mostly spam comments per hour, 24/7, just to get rid of this new system/the pictures, is too horrible to contemplate!
It appears Viv, that more and more newspapers, blogs etc are dumping ‘comments sections’ entirely, Maybe that’s the way forward. Letters to the Editor only.
More likely an underhand way of limiting freedom of speech. Certainly I have noticed on my local Birmingham Mail website that they do not allow comments on ‘certain types’ of article – ie news stories involving Muslims, for some reason 😉
Mostly the pictures were fine except when not all the shots downloaded. However my iphone would not work with this system AT ALL when I was out and about on Saturday and wanted to remind folk that we are all British Subjects