Be careful of what you wish for. The NEC have unwittingly signed their own death warrant by passing a vote of no-confidence in Henry Bolton.
There are only two results of the no-confidence motion. Either Henry goes, or the NEC must vacate their seats and be replaced. Whilst the conventional wisdom has it that Henry is reviled by the vast majority of the members and will lose the vote at the EGM, 28 days is a very long time in politics.
In deciding to take a vote on a motion of no-confidence, the NEC have exposed themselves to their own destruction. To have the possibility of a wholesale replacement of the NEC in ordinary circumstances is impossible. But now, suddenly, that possibility exists. Even if the chances seem to be low, there is a chance where none existed before. Indeed the odds on Henry winning will rapidly shorten.
Did anyone really think that Nigel Farage would walk away from his life’s work? Yes, he wanted a break, but if you listen to what he has been saying recently, he is more and more convinced that the wave of populism is growing in strength. Trump is evidence of this, and in Italy the 5 Star Movement has now taken the lead in the upcoming general election polls. Yet the ‘Patriotic Alliance’ that Banks dreamt of has never materialised. Farage has sat and watched a succession of UKIP leaders have failed, and as chancers and infiltrators seek to take over the party that he built to become a fighting force.
And now, as if by magic, the opportunity presents itself to have a genuine debate on constitutional reform, replace the current NEC and bring one in that is committed to carrying through those reforms. For all the bleating of its members, the fact is that the NEC has failed to produce a proposal for constitutional reform. There were mentions of reform projects in the ‘meeting records’ but nothing ever happened. This has made it easy for the NEC to be blamed for the ills of the party. It is this combination of the NEC being widely unpopular, with the NEC’s own decision to essentially put forward a motion of no-confidence in itself, which creates the most tantalising moment in UKIP’s post-Brexit history.
So Henry Bolton is unpopular today. So was Jeremy Corbyn when 21 members of his shadow cabinet resigned. The resignations are what Henry calls ‘draining the swamp’, and this is also how Corbyn saw it. What do you think would happen if Henry Bolton came up with a reform proposal to turn UKIP into a British version of the 5 Star Movement? And if Nigel Farage came out and backed him, and his proposal? And if Arron Banks put the money up to fund another EGM to make constitutional reforms, and save the party from insolvency? Something tells me the result of the EGM would no longer be a foregone conclusion.
As others have said, the NEC is widely unpopular. If Henry’s proposal is seen as being Nigel’s proposal, then much of its toxicity will be removed. If Nigel promises to return and Banks promises the money to back Henry, then how many people would change their minds? As David Allen has argued in these pages, if you remove Henry but leave all the other structures in place, same as before, then why do you expect any different outcome for the next leader? Something has to change.
And so the NEC is in fact highly vulnerable. They have fallen into the trap of assuming that the conditions in place now will remain the same in 28 days’ time, and although they must have realised that the no-confidence motion in the leader is also in effect also a no-confidence vote in the NEC, they were so convinced of the strength of feeling in the party against Henry that they jumped into the trap.
Perhaps Henry realises this because this is also how he won the leadership election. It was Nigel’s indirect endorsement – ‘political referee’ – that won it for him. He was seen as being anointed by Nigel. As long as Nigel is out there for him, he knows there is hope. And with the 5 Star Movement improving daily, it is easy for him to convince Nigel that the same can be replicated in this UKIP2.0.
On Nigel’s radio show, he was careful to make criticism of Bolton, but to support him on the key point, namely not to resign and go to an EGM with a reform proposal. No talk from Nigel of ‘an EGM will bankrupt the party’- he knows that if the direction of the party is right, the money will come.
We are headed for the most interesting month yet in the recent history of UKIP. It seems finally the revolution is here, carried by the most unlikely bearer with the worst possible backstory. In 28 days, the UKIP we know will be gone, and UKIP2.0 will be in the process of taking its place.
Photo by insightpest
Ms Morney, endorsed by Henry Bolton, leader of UKIP, gravely insulted NOT ONLY black people BUT ALSO the Royal Family.
Apologies are due.
Until they are forthcoming, with the utter rejection of Mr Bolton as unworthy, the party cannot hold its head up, or claim to represent the nation.
Race is inherited, it is not a choice like religion. The muddle that has been artfully created between the two, whereby to criticise Islam is somehow “racist”, is a major source of many of our current problems.
The Royal Family, by welcoming a person of mixed-race parentage into their midst, has gone a long way to healing a needless and harmful division that still festers in parts of British society.
Religion is not a choice if you are born with a Muslim father. You are automatically assumed to be a Muslim. Sharia law mandates the death penalty for apostasy.
Heads of state are not supposed to bow to each other. Obama did not bow to the Queen but he did bow to the King of Saudi Arabia.
The hypothesis put forward is very clever. Perhaps too clever. The NEC members have a limited term and therefore their position, or imposition, is temporary. If the membership is not happy with the NEC surely they need to replace them with members they will be happy with next time round, and thus get the changes they want.
Henry Bolton has had an opportunity to show his worth it has not worked for UKIP. The latest train crash is an opportune event to change the leadership and move on.
Whereas I am always intrigued by complex and well thought though theories, it is a natural and subconscious process to consider the simple reasons first. If these simple reasons do not answer all the questions then I move on to the more complex ones.
Members should be very careful about making excuses for the unacceptable and sometimes outrageous mistakes of those in positions of responsibility, lest they are given the opportunity to repeat, or receive undeserved respect.
You might like to watch this video interview with Liz Jones NEC, by Luke Nash-Jones, MBGA:
Hmmm, the explanations given of HBs salary are not exactly the same as the explanations given by Mr Bickley below….does Liz know about the £10,000 since December?
What strikes me is that there seems to be a major structural issue with the entire management layer missing and the NEC covering for jobs that managers reporting to the leader should be doing. Does anyone actually report to Henry in a hire and fire sense? Sure he has his ludicrous 35 member £2.2million a year salary (not paid by UKIP!) cabinet, but none of these people really report to him, their income comes from elsewhere and he can’t affect it (I thought it was a terrible mistake for him to appoint his team from MEPs, they have absolutely no need to listen to a word he says, how could he not understand this obvious problem?). I doubt he can tell any of them what to do, but he still seems to expect they will jump to his command. Whilst you can say he is pretty silly to not have realised this at the beginning, it seems an awful lot is expected from a UKIP leader but without an actual management team to deliver it. I know people will say ‘we don’t have the resources’ but this comes back to getting members involved and utilising all the talents of the party. For example, fundraising – this should be a department under the Leader, who should be set a target by the NEC, but people involved in fundraising should not be reporting to the NEC. The NEC should be checking monthly if the leader is on track with fundraising and if not, why not.
And to be honest, it doesn’t say much for the leadership selection process that this comes as a surprise. He obviously had no political experience and had never even run in a GE before (for UKIP, anyway). Why does everyone imagine he can suddenly be superman, fundraising with one hand, drafting policy with another? But he was the best of a bad bunch, who else would have done better? A job of the NEC (as guardians of leadership succession) is to make a realistic assessment of the new leader, combined with their knowledge of how other leaders have fallen down, and come up with a plan to support the new leader to give him every chance of success. It sounds to me like he never wanted to admit his ignorance and ask for help, but that should have set alarm bells ringing and in a normal company the chairman would pull the CEO aside to give him a friendly advice. But in our structure, the chairman reports to the CEO…..
Very interesting questions, Graham. I believe many of us were (some still are) dazzled by his CV. Those who worked for him during the PCC election in Kent (where he came second) were impressed, that’s why they worked for him in the Leadership campaign. Many of us thought he was the best of a mediocre bunch, and thought his ‘manifesto’ was exactly what we needed.
As you remember, I wrote a rather critical piece on his lack of ‘success’ in implementing his programme on Oct 31st and was told to please be patient because the mess was so huge. For the sake of the Party. And I was told that something would ’emerge’. Well, the S.O.S. campaign did emerge – and the shadow cabinet. And he travelled round the country. IAW, the signs were there that there was trouble ahead. Also IMHO I believe that even without Ms Marney’s appearance we’d have seen a groundswell of distrust, anger and indeed grassroots rebellion this month. The non-replacement of the ‘interim’ Chairman is a huge case in point.
I’ve been saying this for years: one part in this terrible farce is due to the culture of non-transparency within the Party where nobody ‘in the know’ is saying anything for fear of disciplinary action, so everybody is trundling along until the crash – and then everyone ‘could have predicted it’ …
“I believe many of us were (some still are) dazzled by his CV.”, I recommend going through Mr Bolton’s CV carefully, the best by the bits he published himself: https://www.linkedin.com/in/henry-bolton-obe-4b844819/
One point that may be interesting for UKIP issues:
Mr Bolton was LibDem from 1999 until 2014 when he defected to UKIP (his wiki entry). Around this time he worked for EU as European Union Strategic Planner – EU Common Security & Defence Policy in European External Action Service between 2013 11 and 2016 03. I wonder how his EU (and HMG) employers reacted to this change?
IMO LibDem was much better suiting for his career than UKIP. Or maybe UKIP was part of his strategic plan for EU Common Security?
Liz doesn’t sit on the finance sub-committee, so maybe not.
Yes, but when this issue of salary was discussed at the no-confidence meeting, then surely it was mentioned that he was in fact getting a stipend?
It was.
And we were proactively looking at supporting him on an ongoing basis. Read my comments elsewhere about what happened on Jan 8th
Link crashed my computer ~can you please summarise the content of the vid ?
Sorry about that – it’s hard to summarise as it’s a 30-minute interview. Perhaps it would work if you went to youtube and looked up “MBGA” – Make Britain Great Again” and find the interview there?
Thanks for this link.
There were some other interesting videos on the side.
One very relevant indeed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjpcp4gESsU
‘Bone chilling speech about threat of Islam in Europe’
This is the issue which is troubling the people of Britain as they see the lib/lab/con over running their country with islam, including thousands of terrorists and returning ISIS.
What is the point of allowing Farage in through the back door via his protogee Bolton – when he refuses to allow UKIP to face up to the islamic threat and fight it?
We lose members every day because we are not fighting the biggest threat Britain has faced in a thousand years or more.
We need to become a multi issue party.
We have ignored most of the most important issues to the people – islam, immigration – the most importants issues to the party – PR, Federalism – on Farage’s apparent diktat.
Not only will the EGM decide the future of Henry Bolton – the future of the NEC – it must decide the future of UKIP and its policies.
Are we going to give people the policies they want, that the country needs, are we going to fight for Britain.
Or are we going to stay our hand – wander on – our membership going to where the real issues are being tackled – and becoming ever more meaningless as Britain is islamified and Immigration swamps the lot of us.
Thats the swamp that needs draining.
The EGM must decide between Farage by proxy or a UKIP role in the saving of our country.
And we must elect a leader who is not afraid of taking on islam – together with many other issues.
We must not be a single issue party again.
I didn’t like AMW.
She, too, was no leader.
A former Labour candidate.
I think she is another import from the lib/lab/con as was Carswell and Bolton.
Nuff said.
She is not leadership material either.
My vote went to a genuine kipper.
But we do need to face up to the real issues of the day.
Think hard before you chase after the past and Farage.
With his liberal/tory bent – it will be a dead end.
We need to be listening to the people who voted Brexit and most were not liberal and not tory and they live every day with the reality of invasion, occupation, and a mosque on every corner.
Hear hear Emily.
Absolutely spot on!
Said with clarity Emily,
you make a strong strategic policy case on the direction for UKIP .
Oh! thanks Viv, I like Liz Jones,
She appears to have a sense of humour, not fuddy- duddy, open to ideas, in tune with grass roots and thinks Gerard Batten could do the job of Leader.
I knew Hookem`s hat was in the ring, but I didn`t know Crowther`s was – I`m not sure that`s a good idea what part did he play in getting Henry accepted and elected.
Incidentally I`ve just had a peep at Hopeless Henry`s self published CV.
Strewth, he`s overqualified, he should go straight for President of the EU Commission, particularly as a qualification for that job is to be able to tell terminological inexactitudes at very high level.
It`s as Max Boyce used to say of an Oxford(?) Professor of Poetry. “What the hell does he know about being a Bard?”
I would suggest that anyone who signed Bolton’s nomination be discounted.
I would doubt their judgement completely.
That would rule out Mike Hookem.
Who else?
At the time of signing that nomination, none of us had a clue that Bolton had already lied in his CV (he had three marriages, not two). We trusted him and he abused our trust. I suggest that this is somewhat different from doubting their competence to judge. Sadly, this is not the first time – nor will it be the last – that people have been taken in by plausible liars. I just mention a certain Mr Blair …
With utmost respect I have to differ Vivian.
CV or not – the man had been a Lib Dem for years.
That alone would make most people say – hang on.
And I can honestly say that not a few of us at our hustings smelt a rat immediately.
His position in the Balkans meant that he supported the islamic terrorists against the christian Serbs – hardly a stand we want taken in Britain.
His connection with the police made him an instant suspect for any dirty establishment undernmining of UKIP – not least because of his bizarre conversion in view of his Lib Dem credentials.
I can honestly say there were those of us who were convinced after hearing him for ten minutes that the likelihood was, that his candidacy had a hidden agenda that would not be good for UKIP.
A correct assumption by looks of things.
It is incredible that the top two most voted for candidates in the leadership were ex lib Dem and ex Labour candidates.
Didn’t Carswell teach us a thing or two.
The real deal UKIPers on the list got a right cold shoulder – even though they were loyal, mostly office holders who had served the party well.
A collective act of disloyalty to our own that has come back to bite the party very hard.
Reply to Emily 4.13pm post. Absolutely spot on!
Viv – he did not answer my questionnaire on Islam. It was not clear to me where he stood on various key issues. I did not know, and still do not know whether he has even read the Koran, let alone whether he has read it with any understanding.
BW, AMW, DK and JRE completed the questionnaire. Two other candidates replied, politely declining to answer.
The lack of any response from HB, despite repeat reminders, should have rung alarm bells.
http://www.ukipdaily.com/ukip-leadership-questionnaire-well-understand-islam/
“Bolton had already lied in his CV (he had three marriages, not two). We trusted him and he abused our trust”, dear lady ed, is an accusation that is serious, direct me forthwith to the CV which contains the alleged falsehood and, if your accusation is false, you shall apologise, and if it is true, we shall widely publicise, Dad’s Army it may be, but it operates with military accuracy
Two marriages is what he said – i.e. Mrs Tatyana was his second wife. That she was his third came out when the MSM started taking a closer look.
It was also in his CV – but don’t bother looking at his site henrybolton.org where that and other details/photos were given for us to peruse. That site has been taken down since last week …
Dear Roger,
No one but the members got Bolton elected.
If there is an outside possibility of the entire NEC being up for election, should those of you who want a new structure create a plan and then stand for all the seats based on that plan?
That’s one way, certainly the complainers (like me) should be more constructive than just complaining. Another way is a joint proposal evolves that everyone can agree on? In my mind, a lot of the problems are because UKIP is structured as a company. This isn’t the way other parties are structured. But we don’t operate in the same way as a company (and perhaps company isn’t the right legal structure, but to get out of the structure is difficult now, its a bit like a gin and tonic, easy to mix but hard to separate again). In a normal company you would have a board of directors (NEC) with a chairman, and a management team led by the CEO (Leader). The CEO can be on the board, but the Chairman is the Chairman of the Board, whereas in UKIP our chairman is effectively the Chief Operating Officer. The board should be handling certain matters such as leadership elections, succession planning, reviewing and approving the strategic plans of management, setting targets for management, management pay, representing members’ interests against management, whereas the management should be responsible for all the functions needed to run the organisation’s day-to-day business, developing policy (can be agreed by board), strategic plan, financial plan, etc. We seem to have a kind of hybrid where the board is involved in the executive management. So for example today we learn that the Chairman (which I call COO, because no Chairman of a Board of Directors in any company reports to the CEO) and Treasurer signed off on Henry’s stipends, when Henry is appointed by the Chairman/COO. Normally the remuneration committee of the board of directors, which would not have the Chairman/COO on it, would be responsible for this. Obviously there is a conflict of interest there as the chairman/coo owes their position to the leader whose salary they are approving. I am not for one minute suggesting anything untoward has taken place but this kind of potential conflict of interest should be avoided. Management would be making periodic (monthly) presentations to the board on their progress against the agreed plans and targets and the Board would have powers to reward and sanction management. Another example, I don’t understand why the NEC has a committee like the ‘Technical Committee’ as this should be a management role.
Then there is a whole host of separate issues around composition of the board/NEC, regional representation on the NEC, constituencies for NEC members, how members are elected to the NEC, right of recall where members can recall reps if they don’t represent members well, transparency, etc.
Then a whole host of issues around policy and how it is formulated and adopted, in recent years it seems to have been driven by events (general elections) and the rush to get a manifesto out, but I believe we should have a much more grassroots-driven policy making process involving the whole membership. More radical still would be to go to a direct democracy route like 5 Star where the members vote online on policy.
The you have leader selection….. EGMs….. constitutional change…..
You could say that now isn’t a great time to be having this discussion, but there never is a good time for a discussion like this (as evidenced by last 18 months), and perhaps because there has been no such discussion then now it is being forced to happen (albeit the majority view is that this is a mere smokescreen). Maybe Henry doesn’t come up with a plan after all and there is no grand clash of competing visions (you’d have to say that, based on prior experience, this is the most likely outcome). On the other hand, perhaps he needed 3 months to come to his conclusions and now he is just documenting what he already had in mind. But in any case, no plan that is so fundamental to the organisation can be imposed upon members, there must be broad member participation if a plan is to be accepted.
With respect :
I notice you have had time to formulate this extremely lengthy contribution ~yet you do not ( I must assume cannot ) reply to my important point made twelve or more hours ago :
You seem to think that voting to keep HB will lead to organizational Nirvana with reform of the hated NEC and so on……….
SO my question is ( and I will keep repeating it ):
IF IF IF IF HB ever had a thought in his head, or even a PLAN maybe for constitutional and / or NEC reform………….HOW COME HOW COME HOW COME he never outlined what that plan was during the election campaign nor in the week or two post his election in early September ?
HOW COME ?
It can’t be because he was subordinating managerial flim flammery to going out to the public and getting the message across about UKIP / Brexit / Mass Uncontrolled Immigration / the need for a Fair Voting SYstem or any other political stuff CAN IT ?
Because on those most important issues , and indeed on all issues whatsoever he WAS TOTALLY INVISIBLE FOR THREE AND A HALF MONTHS until the shenanigans !
And it can’t be, can it, because he had family duties to take care of with two infant children because his breadwinner wife was doing all that mercifully far away in a foreign country where she had to go to support him. She and the children alone even at Christmas ! Not even a ‘phone call on that day despite the promise to the older infant to make that call.
The man doesn’t have a thought in his head, other perhaps, than where next to stick his penis. ( And he’ll have a lot of time to worry about that now that his ‘romantic’ relationship with Jo has ended [ oh, sorry, I was forgetting no one believes a word he says so maybe that doesn’t apply ] )
And you think he’s going to have time to do NEC reform ?
Or the slightest interest in it ?
Do you think he has any interest in ANYthing now other than how desperately to hang on to the stipend and expenses detailed elsewhere by the Party Treasurer ?
You do realize he will soon be homeless and penniless and girlfriendless ? And Nigel ~ less once he has failed to do Nigel’s bidding and get the NEC deposed ?
One can understand his desperation to hold on to the perks of office ~but not your keenness to support him in that quest.
Has life experience not taught you that the best prediction of what a man will do in the future is not what he today promises he will do but what in the past he did do ?
So when HB comes out in a few days with Nigel’s plan for NEC reform ( which Nigel also had three glorious years when he could have asked the membership to approve his desired modifications but never did so request ) will it not cross your mind to think ‘ Well if you can produce this now why did you not do so six months ago ?’
http://www.ukipdaily.com/essential-policies-new-leader-adopt/
Hi Rhys, apologies. For fair disclosure, I didn’t vote for him, exactly for the reasons you say, he had no plan, no political vision, and was untrustworthy (his legal challenge reversal. I don’t support him in any way, I have been critical of him since day 1. I don’t like the guy. But I do think we need to change, and we now have an opportunity to do so, as crisis focuses the mind. That’s all I am saying.
By the way, this is also Gerard Batten’s slogan on his leaflet for interim leader “the current crisis presents an opportunity for the future”
The NEC is structured as a company because Michael Zuckermann advised it that unless it went down that route, NEC members would have unlimited liability for the party’s debts, whatever the circumstances.
And nobody would ever have served on it again.
As a company, the directors are only liable under specific circumstances – E.g. if they trade knowing the party is insolvent. Tomaž can probably explain better.
That’s how the current constitution works, anyone can stand, with any agenda.
People seem to forget the current NEC members are members elected by you, the membership. If you don’t want them represent you then don’t vote for them if they stand for re-election – basic democracy in action!
So the members vote to keep Henry Bolton as leader via Nigel and his support base. Is there a name for this.
The technical term is “Trojan Horse”.
Remember Al Capone?
They couldn’t nail him for racketeering so they got him for tax evasion.
Now we have a late but candid post from the treasurer that Bolton has received in excess of £10000 (ten thousand ) since December. Also his bills are being paid.
I have asked to check that specific items mentioned by Jo Marney as ‘presents’ have not been paid for out of UKIP funds.
I would also like to see if those National Liberal Club bills were paid for by UKIP.
It’s best to open up the books and tell the membership, so I’m glad John has been so open. We just need to go a little further.
Always follow the money. Its the surefire way of catching a mountebank.
Indeed – following the money usually shows quite incontrovertibly where lies have been told.
I’d like to know if Bolton is still member of the National Liberal Club – and who paid his membership fees as he’s so short of money. Allegedly.
The National Liberal Club is actually open to any politicians as long as they make a declaration that they are ‘Liberal in politics’ . It’s a broad church. Maybe they mistook Jo Marney for Hilary Clinton….or didn’t read her Tweets…..
Here’s the provision
POLITICAL MEMBERSHIP is open to any candidate eligible for membership who shall make the written declaration
“I am a Liberal in politics” and whose proposer confirms the statement in writing.
Ah.
Which begs the question: why hasn’t the National Liberal Club black-balled him last year or indeed in 2016 when he stood as UKIP PCC?
I heard the bill was £327, without the tip. Good wine I guess. The train fares to Folkestone were not free either, nor the cab fares for her after the knee-trembler at the Folkestone Grand.
Snouts-in-the-trough then – spending more on that evening out than some have to live on for a whole week.
It is quite disturbing.
Some UKIP members and supporters will be on tiny pensions, eking out a living and struggling along. I can understand dining a donor and writing that off against expenses. However at the moment Mr Bolton gives the impression of someone slightly out of control, someone who has lost their sense of proportion and possibly no longer is as grounded as they might be.
Am sure that in part entering the world of politics is enough to make the best of people lose touch with reality.
I can only hope that all this gets resolved soon enough.
Chris
One of the comments I read on Kipper Central was from a pensioner saying that he and his wife were able to remain members because of the £15 annual concessions available for people on very low incomes. He also said that they had had to stop making small but regular donations though and that if the membership fee went up they would no longer be able to afford membership.
These are the types of people that Bolton is cheating. Many UKIP members are pensioners and struggle to find the money for their membership fee. They do it because they believe in UKIP. What a slap in the face Bolton has given them.
Kind regards,
Reply to Brenda, below.
I attended a meeting addressed by Henry Bolton about six weeks ago. He explained that subs were going up. There was some disquiet among the members present. Henry didn’t really seem bothered. There seems no reason at all, for example, not to apply concessions for married couples or other family members at the same address.
Reply to Simon
With the most recent argument being over stipend and expenses I think we can see quite clearly why Bolton isn’t bothered about increasing fees – he’s intent on feathering his own nest.
Kind regards.
Thanks Brenda, agreed it is another betrayal that UKIP pensioner pennies funnel down his mouths in the Lib club. Am not sure why I was holding back when I made the comment at 6:48 yesterday. He certainly has showed no grace towards the less well heeled older members of UKIP.
OMG that takes me back over 50 years to a building site in Coventry.
Agent Artur (Arthur bog Irishman)
addressing our young site engineer – very wet behind the ears and just married. plus a half dozen other people in ear shot including the clients works engineer.
“Noigel (Nigel) have you t*ble ended her yet?
Noigel have you had a knee tr*mbler?”
Artur never got to the bottom of who ordered the 5 cu yards of ready mix concrete
delivered at 1pm Christmas eve.
The site had already knocked off at 12 and Artur, me and another site supervision chap had to shift it ourselves – Nigel had already gone – do you think he knew something?
If I submitted an expense claim for such a large amount for one meal, I would expect our finance department to disallow it.
If I go away for work, I try to get the least expensive hotel within walking distance to avoid a taxi fare, and off-peak rail tickets too if that is possible.
Mr. Bav,
That’s right, we must keep digging. I bet he had a good Christmas on the ten grand, as for me I could not even afford a turkey this year, we made do with a big chicken. Don’t feel sorry for me though we still had a lovely time, we just had to be frugal not fraudulent, it just grieves me that our subs and donations may have been spent on this chancer and his floozy.
I do hope that Nigel Farage is reading these comments and the catastrophe he has unleashed on our party and if he votes for Henry to stay on he should see a psychiatrist.
As there are only the two of us and one small dog, who loves roast dinners, we always have chicken at Christmas. A turkey would simply be too much for us, both in terms of cost and being too big for our requirements.
If I’m honest, I am not keen on turkey anyway and feel that chicken is juicier and more flavoursome. So I certainly don’t feel sorry for you. I bet you enjoyed your Christmas dinner anyway.
Regards
Brenda,
Yes Brenda, we did enjoy it, but what I did not tell you is we did not buy any presents this year either due to circumstances and money being a bit tight. Unfortunately, we had booked to go to Austria for Christmas and I was too ill to go so we had to cancel it, and lose £300.00 which we could have spent on Christmas.
Still, I am much better now and now we have booked another holiday for July to go by coach to Austria, keeping my fingers crossed it does not happen again.
Hi DD
All the more galling when you read about the ‘presents’ that Bolton’s tart is boasting about on twitter.
Hope you are okay to go on your Austrian coach trip in July and that you have a lovely time.
Kind regards.
My club where I stay in Edinburgh closed at Christmas, and the staff were laid off with one week’s notice, which puts these things in perspective…
Brenda,
Thanks,
We are looking forward to it.
“Follow the money” – wasn’t that Deep Throat’s catchphrase?
Rob,
Is’nt that a porno film?
Yes, the actress, Linda Lovelace, was in the news quite a lot about it at the time.
Regards
To be clear,
We don’t pay expenses willy nilly, there are rules in place to cover ex’s.
What he spends his own money on is his business
Farage was one of the founders of UKIP in September 1993 and until his resignation in September 2016 was one of the key players — a period of 23 years. In fact, for nearly 40% of that time, he was leader of UKIP. What did he do to create a stable, robust, well-organised, thriving party? Naff all. He wanted a party in name only to give a little credibility to the Look-At-Me! I’m Nigel Farage show. UKIP may struggle for a while to get itself in shape — but it’s much better off without him.
What’s happened to Mrs. Merton? she has gone very quiet.
She was shown the door.
Viv,
Oh Dear, I had better watch myself then! She did say some odd things and start attacking people on here, at least you cannot accuse me of doing that Viv, (she says keyboard in cheek!).
‘Keyboard in cheek’, DD? That must be very uncomfortable!
No, you’re our Duckie – so we’ll just gently tweak your tail feathers when needed.
Viv,
Thanks for that, actually my keyboard is jammed in my beak, now I am off for a paddle, trying to avoid marauding Drakes like HB.
Take care – thos marauding drakes can be very vicious.
Although he doesn’t know this, I know Donald Duck and saw him buying lipstick last week. He said to the assistant, “Just put it on my bill”
🙂
Yes Viv,
So I have heard.
Today Bolton revealed that he WAS getting paid by UKIP and tat his expenses were being covered but that John Bickley has now stoped his ‘stipend’
Can we have DETAILS please of what payments have been made and a published breakdown of those expenses?
N.B. I can spell, but keyboard needs cleaning!!
Mr. Bav,
I cannot spell and my keyboard needs cleaning too.
My excuse is iPad ?
Rob,
Oh Dear, then get a decent computer.
preferably without emoji’s!
Better still a forum where comments can be subsequently corrected!
???
Dear Colleagues,
Read the articles below then my comments – please circulate far and wide within the membership please – our party is being destroyed by one person:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/23/exclusive-henry-bolton-interview-savings-just-gone-ukip-not/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/all-my-savings-have-nearly-gone-ukip-leader-henry-bolton-says-hes-broke-party-loses-30k-month-1656401
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5401184/ukip-refusing-to-pay-under-fire-boss-henry-bolton-in-bid-to-starve-him-out/
The chairman & I have approved all his expenses, including his train tickets to London.
We have paid him, since Dec just under £10,000 – expenses and stipends (adding up to £thousands)
The F&RC (finance & remuneration committee: Alan Bown, Mick McGough, Fiona Mills & me) met on Jan 8th (before the scheduled NEC meeting) to discuss how the party could help Bolton with expenses and a stipend so he could do his job without worrying about money. I had already set up a bank account for the ‘Office of the Leader’ to receive donations to support him (there’s hardly any money in it). Bolton accidentally came into that meeting (he was early for the NEC one that started straight afterwards) and on understanding what the meeting was about (supporting him financially) commented that he didn’t expect to receive a salary or equivalent for the moment given recent events to do with his private life. So his claim that the party is starving him, not paying his ex’s in bunkem. And in case everyone’s forgotten, the job didn’t come advertised with a salary – we want people standing out of conviction not because they’re after a good salary. Telling members at leadership hustings that you need a salary doesn’t entitle you to one.
In the above articles he’s telling the World that we’re losing £20-30,000 a month! What’s he doing giving away highly sensitive (incorrect as happens) confidential information about the party in public. Won’t donors and members close their wallets if they think the party’s going bust (it must be, the leader’s effectively said so!). IMO his actions are destroying the party.
John,
Please do not pay him another penny, we desperately need to get rid of this man, he is a leech. Do you think that Nigel knows or cares about what he is doing, or is he following Nigel’s lead. I do not think for moment that even Nigel behaved like this, even if he did you could say we had our money’s worth out of him as we won the referendum.
Problem is Nigel is such a bad judge of character that is why his dalliance with Arron Banks worries me, mind you Nigel must have spent all the money he donated, so perhaps it turned out to be a good thing.
I am so glad you are telling us all this, but what a pity we have just found out, the odds are stacking up against Bolton now I hope, and the more he speaks the worse it will get for him, you would think that Nigel could keep a tighter lead on him. But this man is completely out of control and God knows what more heartache he may cause us, can’t we place a gagging order on him until the 17th Feb.
Meanwhile, we need to sell Gerard to the party and the people, why is he so quiet, you do support him don’t you? Please get him to say more and go on the attack, Henry will not just hang himself we need to open the trap door for the sake of party and country.
Please keep us in touch and shut that man up because the press and remoaners are loving it!
Bunga Bunga Bolton should be on a reality television show with Jo Marney. Not as Leader of UKIP. You’re right, we need to sell Batten to the public. We need an elected MEP or AM to be Interim Leader. An unelected member of the NEC serving in an interim role would cause more frustration. Batten for Leader.
Hear hear!
Batten for leader indeed.
Byron,
Let’s prise the baton out of Henry’s greedy greasy little paws and pass it onto Batten, who will be a safe pair of hands I predict.
Oh, Gerard Baaatten!
Thank you for that information. This confirms that Bolton has been handsomely paid . Can you check, SPECIFICALLY, that Bolton has or has not purchased an Apple laptop and an Apple ‘phone ( both items received by Marney as ‘presents’ over the period he was dating her) .
Thanks for being so candid Sir.
We have no control and neither should we over what people spend their money on.
Why have you paid Bolton a stipend? He went for the leadership knowing the position was unpaid and that the party was in a mess financially.
I did what I thought was right, before the debacle, with the support of the Finance & Remuneration Committee to help our elected leader get on his feet. At the time it was important to support him and I took a pragmatic approach in doing so.
JOHN
ARE you permitting Gawain to continue to work for HB ?
On what basis ?
Is not Gawain an employee of the NEC, and should therefore take instruction from the NEC ?
Gawain reports to the chairman and it’s his job to help the leader promote the party via the press. If the leader allows the interviewer, or himself turns the interview into a defence of his personal life there’s not much Gawain can do about that.
If he had been making waves with the membership or the public more generally on UKIP / Mass Uncontrolled Immigration / Proportional Representation then maybe just maybe there might have been some justification for providing him with modest expenses – NOT a substantial stipend.
He asked for the job knowing that there was no payment as such associated with it.
i recall him stating he would continue to work part time with his Consultancy to provide him with an adequate income ~ was that another lie ?
I entirely agree that Bolton making statements about the party’s finances, no matter how close or how far from the truth, is a huge breach of trust and yet further proof that a vote of no-confidence in him was the correct decision.
He clearly thinks rules are for other people only. He is without a sense of shame, devoid of honour, indifferent to feedback, and appears to be a sociopath. The havoc he is wreaking with the party and its reputation beggars belief.
John,
Thanks for sharing this important information, but can I ask for slightly greater precision?
When you say “We have paid him, since Dec just under £10,000 – expenses and stipends (adding up to £thousands)” does “since December” mean since December 1st or January 1st? And your parenthetic comment suggests that either the expenses or stipends are somehow in addition to the figure of £10,000, otherwise why add the comment at all?
Sorry if I am not reading your statement as a financial person, I was once a scientist and so am allergic to uncertainty.
Good idea.
Mr Bickley
Two and a half weeks ago I resigned my membership of UKIP. Had I been able to read dialogue even three weeks ago such as that I have seen on this website in the past three days then I might well still have been a member.
It seems to me that most members are now supporting the NEC, at least to some extent, as indeed would I have done in these circumstances had I remained a member.
I believe, as I have stated on other threads in the last 24 – 48 hours, that there now exists an opportunity for members and NEC to start building bridges.
It would be interesting, and appreciated, to know your thoughts on this.
Regards.
You can have your membership reinstated – call the lovely ladies at Lexdrum House.
Will do. Thank you for the info.
Kind regards.
Now reinstated membership number 428030.
Regards.
Thanks, Brenda! As we know: every vote counts. Seeya at the EGM!
Great news, but maybe you should keep your membership number to yourself?
Vivian
If the EGM is too far away, I would not be able to attend. Like many people I am on a limited budget so the cost is likely to be prohibitive.
Kind regards.
Let’s hope common sense prevails … and they find a venue which everybody can reach. it’s not just distance, it’s travel connections.
Mr McWhirter
It may be ‘great news’ that I have decided to continue supporting UKIP.
However, I asked J Bickley a question (above) which he has not seen fit to answer although he has been commenting on another thread this morning.
Therefore, it looks like we are heading back to square one – feeling ignored by the NEC – which makes me wonder why I bothered with making that phone call this morning and the cost of it, also in terms of time wasted, plus making a small donation to cover the cost of new card and postage to try to save the party a bit of money.
I despair, I really do!
Ref venue for EGM,
Suggested on another thread to John Bickley.
Couldn`t we video conference link the EGM to a number of venues, so more people could attend?
There is a clause that additional rules may be made to facilitate the EGM.
Can`t see that would be a problem.
I could get 20 in my front room at a push (small cloakroom cover charge – dinner £372 – def. not a bunga bunga party)
He doesn’t get automatic notification of your reply/question, and probably hasn’t noticed it.
He turned up on the letters page because I specifically drew it to his attention – I suspect he’s busy…
Hmm, I did wonder which is why I waited until after I’d seen his posts on the other thread today before voicing my disappointment.
I took ‘advice’ from the information Vivian gave about reinstating membership because I felt the NEC were now making an effort with communication and transparency. Many people have grumbled, over time, about the NEC and now, in the current circumstances, members are supporting it.
Just strikes me that it presents an opportunity for the future and was interested to know what his thoughts were.
Regards
Thank you John for giving us this information it is good to know exactly what is going on. When Bolton came to Tiverton in December his room for the night at the hotel venue was booked by our chairman. He is away on a short holiday at the moment, I will check with him next week who paid for the room. I know that during his speech he complained that as Leader he was not paid!
I hope that your information here will convince those that intend to vote for him at the EGM to think again.
I urge anyone who is thinking of backing the Farage/Bolton/Banks alliance to think hard about what they want from the party.
It has been pretty clear from posts that Nigel has had control of policy.
Interesting.
There are at least five issues we could and should have been campaigning on and which would have served the interests of the party well and won us many votes.
Of these five only one has been pushed by Nigel and he has clearly vetoed two of them almost completely.
Perhaps a Farage supporter will come on and explain to me why – when it can be fiercely argued such a veto has lost us a great deal of support and probably seats.
One Brexit.
His forte and our thanks however it is sad that he suddenly walked out and left us in the lurch before we have Brexit – left us open to betrayal – no questions posed – just when we thought we had won.
Two Islam.
Firmly and inexplicably never on UKIP as a high or even any profile issue.
Nigel opposed it I understand – why?
People realise it as number one threat to the country.
UKIP hasn’t seemed to notice that.
Three.
Immigration also firmly and inexplicably never as a high profile issue – just the biggest load of cobblers of the ‘one in one out’ embarrassment.
Never much opposition to open borders and the population replacement going on.
Nigel apparently didn’t like that issue either or so i have heard.
Four PR.
With PR we would have won 83 seats in 2015.
It was our sure way of entre to parliament.
Yet it was always on the back burner under Nigel – why?
Fair voting is as good as a necessity to UKIP – we should be leading the battle for it loudly, actively and vocally.
I don’t remember hearing Nigel mention it once when I think about it.
Five.
An English parliament.
Again – Nigel didn’t like it I am told.
It would win us many votes. Unite us with many new members.
And an English parliament – which must be voted for in a form of PR would have meant many seats for UKIP and an opportunity to prove our worth.
Why are we not fighting for it?
Go following Nigel and only one of these five issues will be policy.
You will be happy, I assume, in ignoring the other four with Nigel dictating the shots,
How ever we must address and fight for all five (and others issues too,) to win votes and seats.
With Farage and Bolton, it seems to me, that anyone left will continue wasting their time because of the refusal to fight the issues the public are concerned about and are the critical problems of keeping an undivided England and the actual survival of Britain.
Just think about it before charging off.
I regret having to remove retrospectively the comments of “Mrs Merton” .
While banter is acceptable, trolling and personal attacks are not.
Well it’s taken a long long time for people on here to see the truth about Nigel – winner of referenda, loser of elections.
Those who profess to be patriots AND believe in the ordinary people of ths country should take this opportunity to change UKIP’s direction.
Keeping on with the same neo-liberal policies won’t help either the Party or anything Farage and Banks create.
UKIP is a church probably too broad to be manageable. Farage, for all his faults, LISTENED to a broad cross section of individual members all around the country and managed to hold a line which, while not satisfying everyone all the time, kept the party membership hanging together in a reasonably good-natured way. We miss his humour and positivity, which was more important than many realised at the time. Whoever the next leader is, needs to pay attention to this aspect of his leadership.
That’s just what he didn’t do, Roger, not in my experience anyway.
He, like everyone else, has his own core beliefs, which is fine, but he posed as the defender of ordinary people and appealed for their vote whilst not actually doing much to help them in terms of domestic policies. The result was failure to make any breakthrough against the tyranny of FPTP.
The opening line of my paper of a year ago ‘A Hundred Seats’ began “There is insufficient realisation in the Party how radical we have to be …” and that is until the case now.
We owe Nigel so much, but for any longer term success we have to understand the realities and ditch Thatcherite dogma.
Nigel was well versed in the art of the possible. Opening up battles on many fronts at once leads to losing the main prize. All other domestic policy flows from independence, the supremacy of our own courts, control of our borders and money.
He was right to concentrate on the fight to force and then win the EU referendum. Full stop. End of.
There’s no argument about pre-Referendum, Roger.
But our only chance from 24 June onwards was to do something different.
We didn’t – and are paying the price. And that’s down to Nigel and his ex-Tory followers.
Well I’ve only ever joined UKIP so I don’t get dragged into Tory-Labour disputes that have no place in the party anyway.
I don’t see how you can blame post referendum policy direction on Farage though. He resigned as leader!
Q,
I think you could well be right, but one has to remember that some members of the public including Ukippers worship the ground that Nigel walks on, and that is because of brexit and they believed he was one of ‘them’.
The next leader has to be one of ‘them’ and speak on behalf of the people, there is no getting away from it Nigel is a fantastic orator, and when I first heard him speak in Cornwall in 2013 I was wowed of my feet, because he was so enlightened and different to other politicians. In fact, he was not like a politician at all and he spoke for me not at me, in my previous posts it may sound like I hate him, that is not true at all, he did a wonderful job against all odds. But I will never forgive him for running way after the referendum, he was not the only one of course, Nuttall did the same, but he knew he could never fill Farage’s shoes as was shown when he became leader, for all his faults I think he gave it his best shot.
And for all Nigel’s faults I think we would not be in the position we are now if he had not left, now he wants to come back in a different guise, well, it is just not fair for him to waltz back in when he deserted us the way he did, and left us to struggle whilst he was being wined and dined by Trump.
In my opinion he just followed the money and the further glory he thought it would bring him, some could say he was successful in that and the best of luck to him, but at that point I lost all respect for him and it looks like I am not the only one. Nigel needs to appreciate how we feel and show some respect to us, it works both ways.
No, this time I mean it, I mean it if him and that useless Henry win this battle, I am off and will join ‘For Britain’. I don’t want to be forced to do that as unlike Nigel my loyalty lies with my fellow Ukippers who have worked so hard to keep this party going under total duress and despair especially at Stoke.
I will always remember the sad and hopeless look on Neil Hamilton’s face when Paul did not win, I don’t suppose anyone else noticed it apart from his wife Christine, but it about summed the whole mess up. If Nigel had remained he may have won that seat, and many others but now he says he is glad he is not an MP or Lord, what rubbish, we need to win seats otherwise we are nothing like we are now.
In order to win seats we need a leader to win one, I am not sure whether Nigel can do that now or even wants to, so what is the point of him controlling our party again, he had his chance and blew it and also he is too vindictive, not a team player IMO. And by supporting Henry he has brought shame and ridicule on all of us, that is unforgivable too.
Sorry, to go on a bit, but that is my rant over, I am very angry about what has happened and like many feel terribly let down by everyone except those who comment on here, and fellow hard working Ukippers. My way of combating the way I feel is to make light of it all, by as you say VIV my caustic remarks, and yes sometimes I descend into the gutter myself.
In future I will keep a check on myself and try and be very grown up about it all, but 26 days is a long time to keep a lid on it, I am sure you do all agree.
I
DD
If this is a ‘rant’ it is very heartfelt : KNOW that you are not alone in what you feel and express.
I share so much of it.
If Nigel had just stayed on for a while after the Referendum ( surely with his political nous he would have known that was only the ‘end of the beginning’ and that if allowed to do so the GBE Great British Establishment would staunch the blood from their broken nose and regroup and rearm ? ) we could have gone on to greater things.
But we still can.
If Gerard Brennan or Steve take over as Interim Leader the fightback for Proper Brexit, for Proportional Representation, and for the Patriotic Working Class can at last BEGIN.
Rhys,
Thank you, you do mean Gerard Batton, don’t you? I know it is getting to me as well.
‘Tis Batten, actually …
Rhys,
We only have hope left and hatred for all those who have let us down and used and abused the party, ex UKIP MEP’s come to mind. Diane James springing up on Nigel’s LBC show, I thought he did not like her he and she share one thing through their hatred of the NEC, well, let them stew in it and perhaps Nigel needs to consider cancelling his membership of UKIP once Henry leaves along with some of the others.
And the good guys he got rid of might consider coming back, although I understand that Godfrey Bloom does not wish to, which I think is a shame.
This my guess only and I offer it as a counter point and not as an argument for the sake of it.
Remember please how long Nigel has battled.
He has most political parties, most of the media attacking him often with falsehoods, smears and the rest. Think how many years he has been at the sharp end of it all. It is quite a number.
Think of those opposition party union funded groups like Hope not Hate. pro immigration groups, antifa style left wing activists who have endlessly attacked him, his family, his meetings, his pub and affected his lifestyle.
Please remember the wheels on his car. please remember the antics of modern comedians during elections endlessly attacking him. Please remember the funny stuff such as missing ballot boxes. Please remember when another similarly named party was placed on the ballot above UKIP to mislead voters and the Electoral Commission did nothing. Please think about the toll this has all had on his family and him. I could carry on but I guess you get the point.
Then there is UKIP itself a party he identified with which was invaded and those invaders once in UKIP attacked Nigel. How low was that to have people backstabbing you and tripping you up while you battled for the independence of the UK.
That must have sullied his attachment to UKIP to put it mildly. Yes, there is also a heck of a lot I do not know about, for example his treatment by the EU.
During all this Nigel Farage kept a positive outlook and battled on winning hearts and minds for the cause of leaving the EU.
Think of the rigged polls, the BBC all lined up, well £moneyed and out to get him.
Is it any small wonder that Nigel Farage decided to leave UKIP when he did. Is it his fault the next months did not go so well for UKIP. Did he not deserve a break from UKIP and its fights.
It is fair, absolutely fair to question his views on policies, it is fair to make UKIP strong, but it would also be fair to give Nigel Farage a nod of appreciation for what he has been through and not attack him overly much for any of his perceived shortcomings.
Amen to that.
Chris,
I agree with what you say about all Nigel’s hard work before he resigned as leader and he did come back as interim leader when we were leaderless, perhaps I have been a bit harsh towards him.
But once he left us I feel he changed and seemed much more muted, perhaps he was got at, we may never know. And there is no doubt that he put up with a lot of verbal and physical abuse, I do not deny that. However, do wonder if he regrets leaving when he did because I certainly do, with him still on board I firmly believe that UKIP would have been a towering force in politics.
Plus, the people that voted to leave would have had a strong party to represent them, a very much missed opportunity. Still, it is all water under the bridge now and we must move on but not with this idiot Bolton, for whom Farage is responsible, I will say no more about this now because it just sends my blood pressure up.
But please understand where most of us are coming from, it is not Nigel’s short comings that we lament but what he and we could have achieved together. It is too late and too difficult to rekindle that relationship now IMO, there is too much bitterness and baggage left behind.
What you say is fine DD, I agree that the situation is not easy.
I just felt compelled to say what I did, it was not aimed at anyone in particular.
Agreed Daffy.
It’s all part of the analysis we should have done in June 16.
Yes it does make you angry. The important thing is to get on the right course now.
Gerard gives great cause for hope, but there is still a lot to do to break down the ruling Tory caucus within UKIP.
The trap metaphor doesn’t really work for me. It suggests an intellectual plan to oust the NEC has been running all along and that they have walked into it.
It might be nice for the anti-NEC brigade to hint that a very clever master plan has been at work, but that’s not borne out by the facts.
Can anyone see Bolton, Farage and Banks sitting down and coming up with the idea for Henry to leave his family for a woman half his age andwho’d made racist remarks as a viable tactic to remove the NEC?
Of course, I wouldn’t put it beyond the bounds that there is now a thought that if they could somehow pack the EGM with anti-NEC members, they could carry the day. Of course, the result would leave UKIP as a shell as few remaining credible members would stay, but it would certainly make someone some money writing the book!
Like many, I have some serious doubts about the functioning and structure of the NEC, which does require some reform, but I have absolutely no doubts about Bolton. I will go to the EGM, not to praise Henry, but to bury him.
David,
You are probably right and I like it, let’s bury him once and for all.
Same could be said of you, luv.
Graham,
Now, now be nice.
The “NEC is widely unpopular”? Only among those who like to be told what to think.
The party could have better admin and secretarial support, and better IT, and so an NEC that functions more in the way members would like, but bleating about that right now when the party is run on a shoe-string is hardly constructive.
Fomenting a civil war in the party, as Nigel and Bolton are doing, is wholly destructive.
I will be voting against Bolton. If he wins I shall not want to be in a party that keeps him as leader.
Absolutely agree with you, Stout.
Difficult to see how anyone could support Bolton after that terrible Piers Morgan – you couldn’t call it an interview – yesterday. I simply couldn’t believe that he put such a thing on air in UKIP s name. My assessment was that he simply didn’t think there was anything wrong with the way he conducted himself.
If he gets to stay, without the NEC, with Nigel and Arron Banks I don’t believe UKIP will ever get the votes needed to do any good.
I’m afraid Nigel has lost his way. Just the fact that he could do an LBC show like the one he did (the only one I have ever listened to) on the state of UKIP leads me to think so. But my guess is that Henry thinks Nigel will swing it for him – if so, Ms Marney may be back in the headlines before long, because that’s all the MSM will care about.
In reply to my question who represents us the UKIP member,it was put to me
that the NEC listened and represented us ,and indeed they have.
Those that have resigned have listened to us and do not want Henry Bolton as
party leader. Now we have the Nigel/Bolton coup, a smoke screen the members
will see through.
If I have followed the reasoning of this tale of intrigue correctly UKIP members have a choice.
Support the NEC and rid the Party of a strange, mysterious Leader who has the backing of sinister, powerful background figures or support this puppet leader and win the grace and favour of these background figures, and set the Party on the road to wealth, fame and success.
Since the powerful background figures seem to be interested only in Brexit, supporting their puppet seems to me, like turning UKIP into a pressure group and nothing more.
What is the point of achieving Brexit and controlling our own borders, if the Pressure group leaders have no interest in controlling immigration or have no concerns about the Islamification of our Country?
After due consideration, i’ll Support the NEC thank you, Bolton must go and hang any threats about the consequences.
OK, maybe I need to write another article about what I think Farage and Banks really want. Of course, it would be more helpful if they would articulate it! I believe they are not only interested in Brexit, but the overthrow of the career-politician, first-past-the-post non-representative system we have now.
Which of course is very laudable – but they’re not really interested in the welfare of the people.
I’m not going to start responding to an anonymous troll. But normally UKIP daily is a place where people exchange ideas without petty insults, that’s what twitter is for. I trust in the editor to decide whether or not you actually add anything of value to this site. By the way, I will bet you £1,000 that I am a member, if you have the minerals to take my bet then send me an email via the editor, or if you want to embarrass yourself without anyone knowing then speak to Theresa in Newton Abbott.
I agree John, Bolton must go THE NEC have on this issue represented what 90% of the membership want. There are problems with the construct of the NEC and the way in which it communicates with members but that is a matter for another day. I support the NEC in what they have done, we must not get side tracked by Nigel who at the end of his LBC show on Monday repeated that he supported no one in the Leadership campaign, clearly untrue.
Meanwhile Henry was the subject of Mac’s cartoon in the Mail again yesterday,once again he has hit the nail on the head.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5300453/Mac-Ukips-leadership-crisis.html
Alec,
Oh Dear, that is sooooo sad.
seconded
We are still in Europe.
They willno let is leave
Yes, that was an error to say post-Brexit, apologies.
t g spokes,
You seem to be repeating yourself a lot, have you got dementia?
t g spokes,
You keep saying this and we are aware of this fact, Thanks. Now try and think of something else to say or go way please.
Thats the best news I’ve seen in the last two weeks. Come on true Kippers, we’ve suffered the vacilations and ineptitude of the NEC for far too long. Support Henry and kick out the NEC. Lets return democracy to the grassroots members
Andrew,
Are you sure this is the right thing to do, Bolton and Farage will have complete control then, that worries me a lot personally. Remember all they are interested in is themselves and maybe brexit, but I am not so sure about the latter myself.
Delusional. Sorry.
The NEC, by calling an EGM as requested by many members, HAS returned democracy to the grassroots.
Why not stand yourself in the NEC elections this spring?
Like they do in the Labour party? Mob rule like the Woolfe Pack the last time Nigel pursued his spiteful grudge?
Bolton only discovered the NEC was not `for for purpose’ when Nigel suggested the strategy to him. I don’t see how a puppet leader can take UKIP forward.
Andrew
If HB had a Plan for ‘returning democracy to the grassroots members ‘ WHY did he not unveil it during his election campaign or at latest in the week or two post election ?
Might it be because he did not in fact possess any such plan and is only now cobbling one together as a last best throw of the dice to hang on to an expense account ?
If Banks and Farage want to create a 5* type movement, they’d be better off using the massive Leave.EU database to do it, rather than taking on UKIP’s donor-debt and legacy of non-computer users.
So maybe they’re just watching on to see if UKIP implodes completely so they can inherit it’s pool of seasoned on-the-ground campaigners and vetted, media-experienced candidates.
That’s a valid point, they must be weighing up the pros and cons. But in any case they are thinking of a merger of the two, either UKIP people into Leave EU/5 Star, or vice-versa.
Graham,
I just cannot stomach Bolton as leader any longer, if Nigel wants to rule then he should have stood as leader, I am sure he would have walked it. But not by trying to do it this snidey way, he should come clean then I for one would have more respect for him.
Getting someone else to do your dirty work even someone as stupid as numpty ‘enry is despicable IMO.
1st class comment. This is an uptick!
One of the issues for Banks is that he’s stuck with the Leave.EU brand, which will look a bit lame after March 29 2019 if we do leave, even if in name only. He can’t legally mass mail those on the Leave.EU database under a different banner. He can of course send a Leave.EU request asking them to sign up to a new 5* like entity from the existing database and sort the active from the indolent that way.
Roger,
Does anyone know what Banks is doing these days? I have not had chance to see his twitter account.
Still active on Twitter, but playing cards close to chest.
Just carping from the sidelines as usual. He isn’t `doing’ anything.
He set up the Patriotic Alliance as a “grassroots” movement – it went nowhere.
Roger,
Arron Banks playing his cards close to his chest, surely not.
Dear Graham,
Yet again you appear to be falling into the trap set by Team Nigel i.e. that the NEC is the bane of all UKIP’s problems. As Steve & I have set out on this forum it’s the Leader, their Chairman and their staff that run the party on a day to day basis not the NEC.
Nigel was happy that the NEC took care of the back office ‘stuff’ whilst he did his political goal scoring. In terms of by-elections, EU elections & general elections Nigel oversaw them all. Nothing of substance happened without his approval.
He’s not happy with the NEC because IMO we did our job of holding people to account:
* it wasn’t the NEC that blew £4m on the 2015 general election, leaving the party with a near £1m black hole. As an NEC member I analysed 1200 invoices and found some appalling things. Remember the NEC was sidelined from the 2015 GE spend/campaign however I exposed where all the dead bodies were. Let’s just say that upset some people
* it wasn’t the NEC that blew c.£350k on one seat in the South East in the 2015 GE, five times what was spent on Heywood & Middleton (one of the party’s best potential seats after those of ex Tory incumbent MPs Carswell & Reckless). If you spend that sort of money you have to win the seat. We didn’t but no one wanted to ask who authorised such an outrageous spend and why it failed to deliver what it was supposed to.
* The NEC ensured that Nigel was protected from certain internal ‘forces’ during the referendum
* The NEC asked Nigel to un-resign after the 2015 GE. He publicly thanked the NEC and recognised their role in governing the party.
* The NEC had no powers to get rid of Carswell & Hamilton, two members that Nigel wasn’t ‘happy’ with.
* The NEC/constitution protects a good leader from hostile forces, a takeover. However the same rules make it difficult to get rid of a bad leader.
* The NEC stopped candidates being imposed from ‘outside’ on the Welsh membership. We allowed them to choose their own candidates (ones that had been vetted BTW). Nigel & Gill agreed that was a great idea, but they seemed unhappy with the member’s choices. Why?
This whole NEC=bogeyman ruse is an attempt to take power away from the members and concentrate it around the leader and their lackeys. Does anyone think such a set up would pass a vote of no confidence in Bolton?
You’d have no power over the leader via your elected reps.
Let me finish by saying the NEC that I have sat on for three years will always support a good leader and do everything it can to facilitate their goals for the party. Bolton, with Nigel’s support it seems is setting up a false dichotomy for the EGM i.e. however bad I am as a leader keep me or else you can’t change the constitution (a false claim as that work is already underway, as Bolton knows only too well).
Re ‘the 1200 invoices’.
What appalling things?
And what’s Bolton spending now?
According to Bolton, he was receiving a monthly stipend. I thought we had always been told that the leader position was unpaid. I had assumed he may have some expenses reimbursed, but specific expenses, but that is different to a monthly stipend. Or perhaps this is disinformation being put out by him? John, what is the truth please????
He always stays in the best hotels in London, and spends a fortune on lunching and dining on a daily basis. The National Liberal Club is not cheap.
So who authorises his expenses, and can we see them?
No wonder the membership fee has gone up.
It’s paying for Bolton’s lifestyle.
Mr. Bav,
Perhaps his poor wife has been unwittingly paying for it all, but it is a mystery I will wager that, or Farage paid the bills not knowing about his not so secret liaison, now that would be ironic.
see my latest post
Start with the £80K Facebook bill that surprised us, arriving after the legally permitted period for settling election expenses. We ended up in court getting permission to pay it, but the press at the time was “NEC can’t pay its debts” ?
What else?
Rob,
£800k Facebook bill, that is beyond scandalous, is Bolton responsible for that, if so he should be made to pay it himself. This man really takes the biscuit for grabbing money from where ever he can. He simply cannot be trusted at all, no wonder we have no money left, and he knows we are going bankrupt, he has spent it all!
I think the reference is to an earlier time and may involve one of our revered previous leaders.
2015 GE, so no, Bolton can’t be stuck with that. It’s not hard to work out who Team Nigel was in those days…
Rob,
How can you spend £80,000 on face book when it is free unless you are you advertising on it, and why was’nt it being monitored?
Good questions. Apparently a representative of the party (I’m not naming names) had authorised an open ceiling pay-per-clickthrough deal ?
Rob,
Not sure what open ceiling pay per-click-through-deal means, canyou elaborate.
In essence: our ad appears all over Fcebook, and everytime someone cliks on it, and gets taken to ukip.org as a result, we get charged.
A lot of clicks = a lot of cost!
Rob,
Thank you,
It does seem an awful lot of money.
Dear John, actually what I write is intended more as a straw man to provoke debate than my own personal view. I’m not a fan of Henry (indeed I have called him psychotic several times on these pages!) but neither am I a fan of the NEC because it simply fails to represent the members and cuts off ‘central party’ from the grassroots. There is no accountability whatsoever. Large areas of the country have no NEC member living in them, so how can they be represented? By contrast, I have at least one (maybe more!) NEC members living within 10 miles and yet they NEVER once reached out to the branch, never invite us to a ‘meet the NEC member’ event, nothing. I know you will say ‘well you could reach out to them’ but no, they are supposed to represent me, not the other way round! And the way they elect themselves is totally open to rigging, in my observation what happens is they spend a couple of months running around some friendly nearby branches, attend their events, take photos of themselves with the branch and put it on social media to show how supportive they are, get elected, and then if they ever feel any responsibility to anyone it is those branches that they chose to butter up. The rest of us can go whistle dixie as they say. This is my observation of the more than four years I have been carefully watching. I even saw the nomination forms for one NEC member and I went back to track which of their nominees are still even in the party, and it was something like 2 out of 10. I am sure the NEC has done many good things, but it does not do a good job of representing members, it does not do a good job of developing policy hand-in-hand with the members, and it has failed to produce any constitutional reform. What happened to the Michael Greaves working group? So it is not for love of Henry that I feel optimistic for the first time in a long time, it is because there is finally a chance to make the revolutionary change that the British patriotic, populist movement needs if we are to take the country back from the establishment!
Graham, it would make more sense if the NEC simply opened up one more space and put you on it.
Chris,
No, I don’t think that would be a good idea myself, the number 13 is unlucky.
You cannot seriously believe that if HB were to survive the EGM vote HE would then lead the party to some kind of Nirvana reform period.
Please answer this question:
IF IF IF IF HB had had a plan in his head for reform of the NEC or reform of the Constitution more generally WHY WHY WHY WHY did he not unveil this plan during last summer’s election period or within a week or so of his being elected ?
The only answer must be because he had no such Plan. If he cobbles one together now with Nigel’s assistance it is only as a last desperate throw of the dice to hold on to an expense account ( you do realize don’t you that after all the damage this bizarre individual has done to his infant children, his breadwinner wife, his girlfriend, his party [ and all in one month ! ] he is facing financial and personal abyss ? Without the expense account and without funds from his wife to pay for the flat in the hotel he will be homeless and penniless. His holding on till the bitter end is in that light comprehensible, but your supporting him is not.
You think somehow that promises he makes to you and the party about reform can be more trusted than the promises he made to all the others he has betrayed ?
He couldn’t ‘phone his child on Christmas Day ( much less be with her and the infant on that day ) yet you think he can be trusted with any promise made to YOU ? )
AND even if he could be trusted on reform of internal party Governance what the hell has that to do with providing Leadership more generally on the issues of Proper Brexit / Mass Uncontrolled Immigration / Fishing in the 200 mile EEZ / etc etc ?
WHY was he SILENT on all these issues during his first three and a half months ?
Because he had plans for party reorganization ?
Even at this writing he has published no such plan !
Yet you believe in it ?
Believe in fairies or homeopathy first, PUHLEASE !
Hi, no I don’t believe he is genuine at all. But a debate is being provoked, the ante has been upped with real stakes now, it’s Henry or the NEC. As a result, I am hoping that both sides will produce reform proposals that help us regain our mojo. Perhaps the NEC one will be chosen, so at least we will then have a roadmap for reform. It is only because the stakes have been elevated that vested interests on all sides are finally being forced to confront the need for change.
“It wasn’t the NEC who blew £4 million on the 2015 election and ….. it was sidelined then”. So who was responsible for “blowing £4 million?” Are they still around? If members don’t have relevant and complete figures about such hugely important matters, how can they make informed choices? This particular disclosure poses more questions than it answers.
I keep asking the questions about £ ‘s . Haven’t heard any answers.
And it wasn’t the NEC who redesigned (and broke) the party website in election week 2015. I received an out-of-the-blue email about our new app, and, after installing, the “about us” button produced “page not found”.
Like, that’s really going to persuade tech-savvy youngsters to back us ?
Rob,
So, who was responsible for that ‘cock up’?
Let’s call them “Comrade Facebook”. The NEC, including the Technical sub-committee wern’t consulted.
As has been said elsewhere, these matters were handled by Nigel and his team.
Rob,
Who was responsible for drawing this vast sum of money out the bank?
I’m not naming names. I’m discussing the £80k because it is out there on the internet, so no secret. But the responsible names aren’t. John Bickley, who saw the actual invoices, can name if he chooses.
Roger,
I reckon it was Farage who blew all this money, then did a runner after the referendum in case they asked for it back.
All the clues are in my piece!
John Bickley, thanks for giving more information supportive of the NEC role and purpose.
In this struggle I fully support the NEC, Steve Crowther, John Bickley and the other 13 against Mr Bolton, David Allen and their backers.
I see the NEC as the soul of UKIP with the executive leader as the body undergoing re-incarnations. In the end, if the NEC prevails this time, UKIP will come out far stronger.
I just hope that the NEC and others plan well for this coming EGM, because this will be an all in fight from Mr Bolton’s camp.
John,
I hope you were not tricked into voting for numptie ‘enry as well? By the way I am not asking who you voted for, but will say I voted for David Kurten who Bolton promised to make his Deputy, that was the first promise he broke, what a vile person he is IMO.
JOHN
You know I am broadly supportive of your posts on here.
PLEASE, on a point of information : what does Gawain’s employment contract say about whom he takes instruction from ?
I.E., given the unprecedented situation we are now in, with a ‘Leader’ and the NEC at odds, does the NEC not have authority to instruct Gawain to stop giving support to the ‘Leader’ and instead start working on behalf of the NEC and whomever the NEC now requests to act as Interim Leader post the EGM ?
Is the employing body ( therefore the entity with power to give instruction to employees ) not the NEC ?
Hi Rhys, Gawain is a pro. He will, just like a lawyer, do the best for his client. He has also to obey the NUJ code of conduct ( which Viv and Debbie know all about too) Although he’s behind all of Bolton’s media appearances, I think we should be careful not to blame him for anything. He is employed by UKIP and- I assume – responsible to the Chairman. He is not a baby that needs throwing out with the bathwater. He’s a good operator.
I am not for a minute criticising Gawain ( or the Green Knight ).
I am just asking, literally , asking for information as to by whom Gawain is employed in the technical sense.
He must have a contract of employment setting out duties and to whom he must report.
I realize the situation is unprecedented but I am hoping that at bottom he has to take instruction from the NEC ?
If not, then from whom ?
Surely not from HB in a situation where HB is in dispute with the NEC ?
Rhys,
I would leave Gawain alone, he is just doing his job and probably cannot tell Bolton what do say or do, unless he is part of this coup that is.
More delusional nonsense from a Bolton supporter. The comparison between HB and Corbyn is absurd: what Corbyn stood for had been documented over his decades on the back benches; he faced an inheritance of those who received preferment under Tony Blair; their refusals to serve Corbyn were partly ideological and partly because they believed the public would not support Corbyn’s platform not because he was reported to have had a fling with Diane Abbott.
Neither the membership nor the public at large have any idea what HB’s policies were or are, so we are now in a position whereby both ourselves and the electorate are being asked to endorse or reject UKIP based on HB’s private life or his desire to ‘drain the swamp’.
The MSM are having great sport mocking us and HB has been fully co-operative in obliging them by his willingness to appear before them ad nauseam. In the words of Clement Attlee, ” ‘A Period Of Silence From You Would Be Welcome’
So supportive that I have called Henry ‘truly psychotic’ more than once on these pages.I don’t support Henry, because as you say, what is there to support? He hasn’t put forward any policies, and I was attacking him from day 1 after he was elected (as the editor will confirm). But he has created this opportunity for revolutionary change that should be grabbed with both hands, as what is the prospect otherwise? Continual decline? Things weren’t great before Henry arrived on the scene remember.
He has not created an opp for revolutionary change. Virtually everyone was in favour of it anyway, and he is just clinging to it as a diversionary lifebelt. In this particular case I will be v disappointed if the revolution doesn’t devour this particular child/goblin.
Sussex man,
Do you think that Henry looks and acts like Gollum in Lord of the Rings?
DD – I let this pass for once, but please refrain from further remarks on Henry’s physical attributes. We’ve read them, and his actual shenanigans to keep his job are far more worthy of caustic comments by you.
Sorry Viv,
In future I will not refer to Henry’s good looks, but I do wonder how he attracts all these young women, and they are relevant to his shenanigans in fact, they are proving to be his downfall. Why does he and they do it, it has been the undoing of so many politicians recently, at least with the influx of ladies into parliament it is not happening so much.
Except that the poor ladies get propositioned and groped by the men we hear, it must be a pain.
In the light of Viv’s remark, I have to say I couldn’t possibly comment, precious….
The prospect when Henry B goes is:
1) Gerard Batten or Steve Crowther as Interim Leader ( either of whom would do a job a thousand times better than HB who did precisely NOTHING with the Leadership during his three honeymoon months ) and
2) A simple reform to the mechanism for electing the NEC to allow for regional elections which would provide a proper opportunity for the membership to assess the candidates, and then, following their election, to have a specific NEC member with whom to dialogue about issues upcoming at NEC Meetings.
Sorted !
Regionalisation was debated and comprehensively defeated at the Bournemouth conference. Some respect for democracy in the party please.
Foxhurst,
The only similarity between Corbyn and Bolton is that they are both twits!
An important difference is that Corbyn is a principled twit who stuck to his principles throughout the Blairite years when other former leftists were converting to suck up the fast fruits of high office.
This is why Corbyn managed to swing it with the Lab Party menbership against the Lab Party hierarchy ~ Bolton has no such track record.
He said absolutely zilch in his three months in the top post before the shenanigans.
Rhys,
You are right Bolton is an unprincipled twit and charlatan to boot,
Corbyn is a principled twit and Marxist.
I don’t disagree, but feel the urge to point out that we had three months of silence from Henry Bolton.
So now HB is just a pawn in Nigel’s chess game to disband the NEC? What next? Checkmate or just stalemate? The Thot Plickens!
Jac,
Love your spoonerism!
That’s about it.
Who chose the “trap” metaphor? And is that really what they think is going on? Or should be?
I chose the metaphor, it seemed provocative. Provocation is a necessary tool for a populist.
You’ve certainly provoked a lot of comment.
I’ve spent too much time on here and need to go and do something else, but it’s given me the chance to formulate a summary for myself: I have been aware of criticism of the UKIP NEC, but never sure what it was about. I’m still not sure; but what I have recently seen and heard of the NEC, collectively and in respect of some individuals, gives me confidence that they are working as well as they can, in the best interests of UKIP and of the country, and listening to members, too. I shall be supporting them at the EGM, and I encourage others to do so, too.
Simon,
I am glad you have reached the right conclusion.
Simon,
Do you mean you have something better to do? I spend all my spare time on here thinking up witty repostes, have you not noticed?
Simon,
The only thing is that Nigel is the rat in this trap.
They have all to play for and zero to lose. Its a shot-to-nothing. Mr Bolton could indeed ‘pull it off’.
I agree that at the EGM, Mr Bolton and others will bring extra ammunition to the battle. Large sums of ££££££ is the most likely extra surprise offer.
I agree that Nigel Farage is likely to energetically support a new vision and structure for the party.
Yes, they will bus in their supporters.
I agree they could win the day and ‘successfully’ drain the swamp with the inevitable, resultant exodus. They will reckon on the newly formed party bringing in membership from all the loyal Farage supporters, of which there are many which will easily overtake any exodus losses including the For Britain split.
The NEC, to be effective, has to have continuity of membership, otherwise no one on the committee will know the history and the ins and outs of the varied issues.
I guess the question is whether the NEC and any potential interim leader, such as Gerard Batten have the energy to fight it out on the scale being planned by Mr Bolton, Nigel Farage, David Allen and many others.
Have the odds on the EGM outcome been published ?
Plus later on after Mr Bolton has won the EGM he will be quietly sidelined. Paid off and continuing in a well paid less public facing role.
Chris,
That’s about right he will have done his bit, but wait, what if he is cleverer than we think and actually decides to stay on, oh, gawd help us!
Exactly, its like a cup final between the minnows and Man City. The odds are with Man City. But on the day, anything can happen. I can’t see any odds published, there are odds for next UKIP leader but not for the result of the EGM.
Graham,
So, what are the odds for the next UKIP leader, will it be Suzanne Evans?
Help! that’s even worse, but she does hate Nigel and Banks, so they will not be able to manipulate her, by the way what has happened to her mate Carswell, shall we get him back? Nigel hates him too, in fact, does Nigel like anyone apart from Rees Mogg? who does not want to come over to UKIP.
It is just too complicated for words, and I have got a headache now!
This was your hypothesis, remember!
Graham,
I know it was my hypothesis but I have got confused now and don’t know what hypothesis means!
These are the latest odds, but bookies price according to the bets they take not their objective estimate of who is most likely to win
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1618587
Graham,
Wow, David Kurten and Nigel Farage together at the top, hardly seems feasible, they are so opposite to one another.
And Tim Aker third wonders will never cease, that’s if I am reading it properly. I am not a betting person myself.
Chris,
I agree Gerard Batten has a huge fight on his hands if he wants to win this he will need to offer changes and agree to stay on as leader to see them through, is he up to it I wonder, not much word from him at present although there is a face book page to support him on another thread on this site, have you seen it?
He needs to be much more pro-active in my view to outwit Farage and co. it is not enough to rely on the loyalty of the members who support him, there are many who still want Farage back and will put up with mad Henry to do just that, scary ain’t it?
Hello Donald Duck, a couple or few days ago I had a Gerard Batten page open, It could have been face book, I am not sure, (I believe I am not on face book or twitter). Yes I agree with you, there doesn’t seem to be much presence from him, but then, I only visit UKIP Daily.
Yes, Gerard Batten and the NEC will need to be energetically on the offensive, just to counter the all out assault Mr Bolton & Co are certainly planning. I am not sure that that is Gerard Batten’s way. In the EGM truth and decency will not win out through virtue alone.
For me, I am resigned to the fates on this one.
I have been a long term fan of Nigel Farage and respect his commitment and tenacity, even if I disagree with some of his moves. However I am opposed to Henry Bolton continuing as leader.
Chris,
Yes, this is my worry too, Gerard is a bit of a quiet decent type, he needs someone noisy and nasty behind him, who do you have in mind, what about David Coburn, is he mean and nasty enough? Oh, no he is a massive fan of Farage in fact, I think he is secretly in love with him, not sure if he loves Gerard though.
Henry’s antics and poor performance are to blame not the NEC. Reform of the NEC and/or constitution is a separate matter. Henry is using this as a poor justification to stay on as leader. If Henry did win what would be left of the party? I suspect those elected UKIP members who have already resigned will leave completely and many members will leave. There will only be a hollow shell left. Remember the current NEC has been elected by the members. They have merely carried out their duties according to the constitution.
I believe , although I only know 2 ex NEC members, That all nec members are legitimate and sincere people. And some are brilliant.
I know I’m boring.
The Rule Book And Constitutions need rewriting. Not cleverly by barristers. Simple and clear. As I’m sure it once was. And one of them , The rule book must become just rules. There to be broken .
How is it then that one young, visionary (now) ex-member of the NEC had his life made so uncomfortable he felt obliged to leave. Did Patricia Holdsworth do a ‘Diane James’ prior to departure? What’s the UKIP history of Marta Andreasen? Just asking.
Roger,
Have not got a clue. Who are Patricia and Marta? and are you talking aboutnTomaz who left the NEC?
No Donald, I’m not talking of Tomaz but of a young man from Bristol who was a whizz with social media and set up a comprehensive on-line site where UKIP members and many others who were looking for alternatives to Westminster and Brussels spent much time debating and offering ideas. As a result I became a member of a group who met via that site and decided to meet personally in attempt to formulate ideas which might help UKIP become more than a one trick pony. It was called the Lechlade Group (after the Cotswold village where we used to meet). It quickly became defunct due to ‘outside influences’. If you haven’t heard of our demise I will gladly tell you but, on this forum, I would be repeating myself – much to the annoyance of others I’m sure. Another of the Group posts here regularly and he’d have more insights about the affair than I. I’d love to hear them myself !!!
Roger,
Oh, right.
Ah. David Lamb.
Lechlade (named after the town near Swindon, where we first met) was great, until it collided with Nigel. A robust defence might have saved it, but David was fighting brain cancer at the time ?
Patricia left because her husband needed medical support which would have distracted from the leadership.
Marta was a FON – Friend of Nigel, who liked the fact she’d fallen out with Neil Kinnock.
She was offered for ranking on the London and SE lists, (with neither side being warned of this) despite very dubiously meeting the residency requirements, and London were not best pleased when she chose SE – they thought she’d committed to them.
The returning officer’s report (Piers Merchant) to the NEC on those ranking elections makes FASCINATING reading ?
Rob,
I thought everyone had fallen out with Neil Kinnock including his wife, cannot stand the man myself nor his wife either, both on the EU gravy train. She was a teacher so what qualifies her to be a politician or him for that matter, they both need to retire to an old peoples home and take their son with them
Dear Rib,
You say “Patricia ….”.
And I say Petrina.
Regards. Toby. 01932-873557
Rib,
Well, Hello Ducky,
Quack! Quack!
You’re right. But maybe Donald meant someone else we BOTH don’t recall?
Really? Speak to Teresa in Newton Abbott.
The EGM will not truly represent members views as only a limited number will turn up for it, wherever it is. The press and media will however be gathering , like vultures, waiting to pick at the corpse of what remains afterwards. I don’t honestly believe that more than a few hundred will gather, at wasteful expense, for the one-issue meeting but understand why it has to go ahead. Bolton, as I’ve said previously, is now only in this for attention and his narcissistic fix, as was made quite clear during the excruciating interview with Piers Morgan yesterday. And Towler is still advising him , with UKIP funding. Goodness knows why.
An utter unedifying mess. Levels of interest – and membership- in UKIP will drop to insignificance due to all this. 28 days is indeed an awful long time in politics. Too long in this case. I can’t see that many activists will pound the streets in May this time round, because they will be too embarrassed to knock on doors, and a wipe out looks inevitable.
Mr. Bav,
I definitely will try and attend the EGM, as it will give me great pleasure to cast my vote against Henry, even if I do nothing else for UKIP.
Good for you Sir!
Mr. Bav,
I am not a ‘Sir’ I am a Mrs. but there is not a Mrs. Donald Duck, and no before you ask I am not gender fluid, just a very confused duck. God ‘love a duck’, I don’t know which way to Quack.
When a gender confused Blackadder went to the doctor and was offered leeches, he said the doctor was a quack.
The doctor replied he’s rather be a quack than a ducky ?
DD, hire a minibus like our branch has done and whizz up the motorway. See you there.
Roger,
That is a good idea I will mention it to the other branch members, it will be well worth it. Failing that I will fly up there I am a duck after all.
But proxy voting will be allowed…? ?
So far it looks like Derby on 17 Feb
Rabbit,
Oooh, Matron that is a long way to travel.
With respect this analysis, whilst superficially having some attraction, falls apart with the application of a small dose of principle: – because it is still the case that HB ‘s bizarre, judgment~absent, and self destructive personal behaviour, combined with the fact that his brain is a policy free zone, means that with him as Leader UKIP will be derided into collapse.
There is no possible analogy between HB and Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn has been a principled, strong left winger for over 35 years since he first entered Parliament. He clung to his beliefs and proclaimed them throughout the Blairite years when most Labour MPs bent the knee in order to become Ministers and enjoy the fruits of high office.
Corbyn ‘s success electorally within the Lab Party since 2015 and then last summer in the General Election, is based on being seen as a rare principled politician.
If HB wins the EGM against the NEC he still remains, for the country at large, a judgment~free mountebank who abandoned family breadwinner wife and two tiny children over Christmas ! for the sake of rutting away with a stupid ‘model’. ( And now he’s abandoned the model as well as the wife !)
If you look at the damage this strange badger- strangler has ~ in the space of a month! ~ done to his wife, his infant children, his model GF, UKIP
, and himself – how can you possibly think he is a credible figure as a Party Leader ?
No amount of obsessional anti NEC ranting by Nigel from his LBC pulpit is going to alter these objective reality FACTS.
In my view Nigel remains the towering figure of British politics since the War ~even Thatcher never really went against the EEC / EU monolith when push came to shove.
But Nigel’s current obsession with the NEC being allegedly ‘not fit for purpose’ can only be seen as bizarre : first of all however dysfunctional the NEC may or may not be ~it never stopped Nigel from achieving what he did between 2014 and 2016, did it ?
Secondly, if Nigel had wanted so much to reform the NEC he had only to put forward to the Membership his specific proposal to change the Constitution in whatever direction he wished : he had the whole of the Party membership wrapped round his little finger and we would all have voted for his proposals.
But he never made any such proposal.
Sorry : HB as plucky little Corbyn figure just doesn’t cut it. The NEC will get the membership support it deserves, and the Party requires.
I do though, express the wish that the NEC will not wait till the day of the EGM to have in place a credible Interim Leader, such as Steve Crowther or Gerard Batten, together with a specific plan to consult the Membership within one month on a new mechanism for electing the NEC, which in my view has to be a Region based election, such that the membership may attend Hustings at which local NEC candidates can set out their stalls, their CVs, and answer questions. Following election via STV each member of UKIP will then have a direct connection to the NEC ~a specific individual with whom the members can communicate their thoughts on issues arising at upcoming NEC Meetings, and a specific NEC member who will have the responsibility of informing the membership as to what transpired at the last NEC Meeting.
The unbelievably awful Henry Bolton has caused a crisis for UKIP – but actually when the NEC gets strong support at the EGM both it and UKIP can emerge stronger.
With its ‘parliament’ full of Quislings determined to overthrow the Referendum result the country has a need for UKIP more desperate than ever…….. we must not fail it.
Finally getting shot of the mountebank is a necessary, but only the first, step.
Rhys Burriss
http://www.ukipdaily.com/essential-policies-new-leader-adopt/
‘when push came to shove’, Thatcher was deposed – by the Tory Elite!
GH,
Yea, she was stabbed in the back by Heseltine who is now demented, and in the front by Major who now has Alzeimers, poor Maggie she got that in the end it must be catching.
Rhys, I am not a supporter of HB. I think he is psychotic in fact. But his mere existence has created this opportunity. And yes, I yearn for the days when Farage was hitting balls for six and UKIP was winning. And Farage backs Henry, not because he thinks Henry is a good leader (who possibly could?) but for the same reason, that Henry has provoked this ‘final conflict’ situation where finally we might get some real change. And the patriotic, populist movement might be saved.
Rhys,
Corbyn does have the support oft the horrible momentum crowd don’t forget and that swelled their membership to 500,000, no chance of Henry doing that is there? not unless he undergoes a brain transplant.
I think Gerard as leader and Steve Crowther as his Deputy would be a dream team for UKIP, they both know the workings of the party so well, Gerard could still keep up his sterling work in |Brussels, whilst being able to trust Steve to run UKIP efficiently as he did before when interim leader.
This would be much better than the numpty Henry and meglomaniac Farage gruesome twosome.
I suspect a lot of Kippers have grown weary of Farage and wouldn’t follow his new party were he to form one.
What will Farage’s party stand for?
He has no interest in anything other than the EU.
No, I disagree, Farage’s real interest is to overthrow the British establishment using Trumpian populism and direct democracy like 5 Star.
5 Star believes in The People.
Farage is a Thatcherite and doesn’t.
Was Lady T not an anti-establishment populist too?
Only up to a point. She believed in libertarian economics, which is not in the people’s interest and has done so much damage to our country.
Graham,
Nah, I don’t think so, she was too much of an out and out snob to be one of them, Farage is an inverted snob, but does share Thatcher’s inflated ego of self righteousness and power hunger.
Plus, he was a big fan of hers but also Enoch Powell, so he cannot be all bad, not sure whether Thatcher was a fan of Enoch actually, I would imagine she was, if not I am sure Dennis would have been.
I was quite surprised when I went to visit Margaret Thatcher’s grave at The Royal Hospital Chelsea, it was very plain and understated with just one bunch of flowers on it from her son Mark, because it was her birthday. I think Dennis is buried there as well, they donated quite a lot of money to the new hospital there I understand.
Nigel thought “the people” – the ordinary Welsh members of UKIP – would reject Welsh born and bred, Welsh speaking Neil Hamilton. Boy was he wrong! ?
Roger,
You mean he hoped they would because he hates Neil so much, and he often wrong because it is what he wants to happen rather than what should or will happen, that is why he is wrong now with Bolton. They must take us for right mugs if they think we are going to fall for this.
Thank you Rob for all your interesting comments.Keep sending them.
And how exactly was walking away after the referendum evidence of this supposed real interest?
SY,
Exactly, my thoughts precisely, don’t be fooled I say.
Just on a point that someone has said elsewhere on this website. about the Movement 5 Star. As someone who knows Italy very well. Perhaps there is something to learn from them. As well as huge on the ground activism of there Branch’s at rallies up an down the country. With a membership of 135,000. The Direct Democracy of online voting by its ordinary members on some issues such as last year, whether to leave an join a different group in the EU Parliament, has been a huge success. It’s not as someone has put it that just “Anyone” can vote on party policy, with a simple click of their mouse.
Those “anyones” are registered Members of The Movement and I don’t know of people who join Political Parties or Movements as Members, to be politically ignorant of issues. It is also why the Movement 5 Star, has a high Membership and Strong Branch Grassroots activism. Rather than all power resting with a Small Group of People, who may think that they know it all. Above the Members who voted them in. It is why the Movement is in part Membership driven by its nature and it members feel fully involved in it.
The Movement 5 Star is New Party just as UKIP , has been going only since 2009 and is now on the verge of becoming the Government of Italy.
Simon
I also know and love Italy, and have done since my first visit hitch hiking there with a few pounds in my pocket in the summer of 1970, before going up to Oxford.
Am I right to think they still have a strongly proportional representation basis for their elections to Parliament ?
This is what allows new parties such as 5* Cinque Stelle to enter the fray when the old ones turn stale and unresponsive.
This is why I believe UKIP needs to major equally on Proportional Representation as an objective together with leaving the EU fully and imposing a five year Moratorium on all new immigration from whatever source ( Non EU as well as EU ).
6 Stroud members recently attended a cross party, Make Votes Matter meeting and outnumbered all other parties (tories not there obviously). Whilst it probably won’t come to much the other reps were in awe of the fact that so many local UKIPpers were taking such an ACTIVE interest. And at least it showed that we’re still around. our (small) facebook page was still getting new ‘likes'(pre-Henry).
Roger,
That is good.
I believe MVM is an excellent organization doing sterling work on a tiny tiny budget.
If HB survives the EGM vote I will be devoting all my energies to this extremely worthy political cause.
( If he goes I will still be giving them some support and I hope organizing Mtgs etc in the NorthEast ).
Don’t go David Allen on us please….
Sussex man,
Are you talking to me?
No I was talking to Rhys re PR. My heart always sinks when I hear people drone on about it. The only people who could even authorise a referendum on it are the ruling party, and by definition it’s the last thing they want. We’ve had the only alignment of the stars that might ever bring it about, ie the coalition, and traitor Clegg managed to screw up his one big chance. So, while a worthy policy to have in the back pocket, if, like David Allen you want to make it No 1 on the doorstep, voters will mentally dismiss us out of hand as bozos. And they are right.
SM,
I have not said I support PR that much as I too find it boring, but because people keep going on about it I thought I had better look interested. Personally, I don’t think it would work and the bigger parties will never accept it anyway, they do not like coalitions, and as you say after Clegg’s debacle neither will the public.
Sussex man,
In reply to my ticking off by Viv, and your earlier comment it is ‘my precious’, I bet Henry says that to Nigel every time he sees him. Sorry Viv, I just cannot help myself, hee, hee!
Last time the whole NEC was up for election was under PR.
It was, erm, not a particular success…
Simon,
It sounds great and when I was in central London last year I spoke to one of it’s members who was very sensible but do you really think Nigel Farage would listen and abide by the members views? He has’nt up until now, so how has he changed? because he will be running this movement have no doubt about that.
I would not mind if it was Gerard running it, but not Farage for me thanks but no thanks.
Yes, but the NEC will still be there. It will just have new people on it. It has new people on it every year, this will just be an accelerated process. A couple of years ago it had 7 new people, more than half the elected members. ‘The NEC’ is not a group of people, it is a Constitutional construct, created by Nigel Farage himself, to give the members a measure of control over the leader. Get rid of those of us who have no confidence in Henry Bolton, if you disagree, by all means. But then you’ll just have to elect 12 more members to take our places. If you don’t, you won’t even have the means to run a Constitutional review, or get it approved by the membership. Beware of what you wish for.
I believe they will now make a proposal to change this constitutional construct, and, if H survives the EGM, push for the election of new NEC members who will support this change, have the 2/3 vote, then go to the (remaining) members.
Mr Crowther
We now know we have more reason to thank you and support you.
Not only did you pass the no confidence motion many of us were urging you to do.
You knowingly did it putting your own status and NEC posts clearly on the line.
That is integrity indeed and shows your commitment to the party and its membership comes first over and above your own personal interest.
Thank you indeed.
You did not let me down – or other members down.
It is now up to the members to ensure we do not let you down at the EGM.
We will have damaged ourselves and UKIP even further if we do.
That is obvious.
Steve,
Oh, Steve it sounds horrible to conceive of.
Whoever is the next leader does need to have a thorough understanding of Islam. And to be able to speak fluently on it, and be able to quote key verses from the Koran.
Whether we like it or not Islam is a major issue.
Mr Bolton could completely turn his dismal efforts around. I have a feeling that if he himself could quickly get up to speed on Islam, and fearlessly tell the truth on it, there could be a sudden reversal in his own standing with the members. It would also significantly boost the rating of UKIP with the public. The party would actually be relevant again.
This is Bolton’s current pathetic effort:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar2kcWJkoCQ
If he could be more like Robert Spencer in his accuracy and scholarship, and like Pat Condell in his forcefulness and humour, it could really turn around his own fortune, and that of the party, and most importantly, that of our country.
Hugo,
There is no chance of that Farage won’t let him, and anyway, he is not clever enough to do all that, come on man use your ‘noggin’!
Who gets to choose the EGM venue? It’s rumoured to be Derby. Bolton allegedly has his greatest concentration of support in the East Midlands.
EGM venue needs to be somewhere in the Midlands to enable the max number of members to attend at least cost in fares / petrol.
If it starts at noon to finish at 3pm to 4pm ish most people would be able to get there without needing to overnight in an hotel.
Rhys,
What about my hometown of Birmingham? that would be easy to get to and I can see the new station there at the same time, they say it is wonderful and I hate to say it, but unlike the rest of Birmingham when I last visited which was some time ago I must add.
With proxy voting allowed, does that matter?
Where in the rules (Constitution) is proxy voting for a Party EGM? Clearly this should be permissible, but how? Also pls respond to my comment on Crowther’s article in the KC.
No idea, but that is apparently what Chairman has said. Once more is known about venue, I will be querying on behalf of overseas voters…
I replied this am, but you just can’t get the calibre of post-approvers on that site ?
The method was tried on NEC, Regional Organisers, Regional Chairmen, and anyone else significant.
Quelle surpris: Nigel asked me to vote for him; I sent him a load of screenshots confirming his intentions had been correctly implemented ?
But even so, launching to the whole membership on a leadership election where distrust levels will be high is not the best option…
Thanks for your reply; yes, I understand the moderation issue.
I might have been better to trial using fictitious candidates. I can’t help feeling that modernising systems and saving money on printing and postage, venues etc should be very high priorities as well as the opportunities for emulating five star-style direct democracy.
We DID trial with fictitious candidates, and a few interlopers to keep things interesting.
See here: http://www.ukipdaily.com/ukip-elections-electrified-e-voting/
???
Thanks for the link; is e-voting stalled since NF left? Actually, I was quite enthused by some of JRE’s ideas for member networking and could see a more sophisticated system (and possibly more sophisticated membership) could communicate not only their candidate choices but also their policy choices, interests, and expertise and share these all via a secure signon to a central system.
It’s stalled because you need to get PIN codes to everyone, and to convice nervous luddities that it is better than paper voting.
Rob,
Do you think that proxy voting is wise? We do not want to lose this do we?
See Thursday letters.
“There are only two results of the no-confidence motion.” No there is a third possibility, the possibility that almost all members resign or let their membership lapse in frustration at the result.
That’s a good assessment. Highly likely to be option 3.
Option 4: Less than 250 members attend and the meeting is inquorate.
Rob,
Nah, can’t see that happening myself, more like 2,500, what does inquorate mean? Is it Latin again?
If less than 250people turn up (albeit agreed unlikely),then the meeting would not be valid.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inquorate
Definition of inquorate
: not having a sufficient number of officers or members present to transact business : lacking a quorum an inquorate assembly
… an earlier attempt to vote on the report … failed after the meeting was found to be inquorate. —Tim Beardsley
There are only two results of the no-confidence motion. Either Henry goes, or the NEC must vacate their seats and be replaced.
So where in UKIP rules does it say that a NEC must resign after members fail to support a current action – as has been taken against Bolton.
Could you please spell it out for me, Mr Matthews, clearly and precisely without the verbage.
The actual rule….word for word …please.
I am just an ordinary member not a legal expert.
If you look at the constitution at the bottom of each page of UKIP.org you will see:
No confidence motions
6.23.1 A motion of no confidence in the Party Leader may be proposed before the NEC. In order for it to pass, no less than nine members of the NEC shall vote in favour of the motion. The Party Chairman shall have a casting vote in the normal way.
6.23.2 The Party Leader shall be given no less than seven days’ notice in writing of the meeting. He shall be entitled to attend, to address and vote at the meeting. He may make written representations to the meeting. He may question any member or other witness whose evidence is considered by the NEC as being relevant to the issue on the same basis as any other party and may call witnesses on his own behalf on the same basis as obtained during the case against him.
6.23.3 If the Party Leader cannot attend the meeting, he must be given a reasonable opportunity to attend on a subsequent occasion to take place within ten days. Provided that he has been given reasonable notice of such rearranged meeting, the NEC may proceed to deal with the matter in his absence if the NEC is of the opinion that, in all the circumstances, it would be fair, reasonable and just to do so and that he has had reasonable opportunity to attend.
6.23.4 In the event of a motion of no confidence in the Party Leader being passed by the NEC, the Party Secretary shall call an EGM of members of the Party, such EGM to be held within 28 days of the passing of the motion. The NEC may from time to time make Rules as to the conduct of such an EGM. The EGM shall have as its only business a motion to endorse or to reject the vote of no confidence in the Leader by the NEC.
6.24 In the event that:
a) the EGM convened under Article 6.23.6 rejects the vote of no confidence in the Party Leader; or
b) the Party Leader stands for and is re-elected as Party Leader at an election following a vote of no confidence in him by the NEC,
elections shall be held in respect of each of the elected seats on the NEC, with the result being declared no more than three months from the date of the refusal of the EGM to endorse the NEC’s vote of no confidence or the date of Party Leader’s re-election as the case may be. Until such time as those elections are held the NEC elected members shall remain in office until their successors are elected.
If you have a look at the constitution, which can be found at the bottom of each page of UKIP.org, item 6.23 et seq says:
No confidence motions
6.23.1 A motion of no confidence in the Party Leader may be proposed before the NEC. In order for it to pass, no less than nine members of the NEC shall vote in favour of the motion. The Party Chairman shall have a casting vote in the normal way.
6.23.4 In the event of a motion of no confidence in the Party Leader being passed by the NEC, the Party Secretary shall call an EGM of members of the Party, such EGM to be held within 28 days of the passing of the motion.
6.24 In the event that:
a) the EGM convened under Article 6.23.6 rejects the vote of no confidence in the Party Leader; or
b) the Party Leader stands for and is re-elected as Party Leader at an election following a vote of no confidence in him by the NEC,
elections shall be held in respect of each of the elected seats on the NEC, with the result being declared no more than three months from the date of the refusal of the EGM to endorse the NEC’s vote of no confidence or the date of Party Leader’s re-election as the case may be. Until such time as those elections are held the NEC elected members shall remain in office until their successors are elected.
Thanks for that Debbie.
Thanks for your time.
You have certainly changed my view of the NEC.
Not only do I need to thank them for passing the no confidence vote in Bolton – it appears now that they did so putting their own positions on the line.
Selfless indeed.
I think we owe them more than we realised – and should appreciate even more their courageous act – putting the membership and party before their own elected status.
It seems to be adding to the falsity of the picture we have been receiving that the NEC are somehow power crazed and a danger to members.
Its definitely beginning to show that they have been blackened and blamed for doing their job – on behalf of the membership – by standing in the way of dictatorial arrogance.
Thanks NEC – I misjudged you
Emily,
I agree we owe a great debt to the NEC for putting their necks on the line, that is if they realised they were doing so, also for riling Nigel to the point of supporting numpty Henry.
Mrs. Merton,
I will be doing such forthwith.
Imagine Bolton losing at the EGM and then running for Leader in the next leadership election. He’s delusional enough to do it.
That’s why I believe – once the EGM is over and he’s gone – that we must campaign for the NEC to adjust the requirements for candidates (they can do so) stating that no candidate who stood in either of the 2016 campaigns or in this year’s campaign is allowed to stand.
Let’s have proper grassroots candidates, and demand that they have served as branch chairs and/or stood as PPC and local councillors in the elections since 2014. Would also save on vetting costs because they would already have been vetted.
Good ideas Viv.
No. He can’t afford the deposit anymore. ?
Rob,
Nigel Farage might lend him the money or Nick Clegg.
Interestingly, the last time (2001) such an EGM occurred, BOTH leader and NEC were kicked out, but the constitution now is very different! ?
You missed out the heart attack Spon
Mentioned it in previous articles, I don’t want to keep the nervous away from this meeting ?
POP,
With a bit of luck HB will have one, oops, should not have said, I mean a nice cup of tea of course.
It would be plain daft were the NEC to be kicked out following the EGM, as their combined depth of knowledge, experience and expertise would be hard to replace or build up again.
If any group deserve expenses the NEC do.
Chris,
Yea, I concur give them Henry’s that he has been spending on that bird.
If we get to that stage, the main danger is being trampled in the rush of members heading for the exit, literally and metaphorically.