There are certain phrases frequently used in media discourse which appear to indicate a desire to open up debate but, in fact, signal a wish for discussion to be stifled.
Take one of my favourites (frequently heard on BBC Question Time).
‘We need to have a debate about X’
This is almost always politics speak for “I am about to fob you off with meaningless blather and pretend that everyone can have their say.”
Always beware of politicians who call for a “debate” about an issue. What they really mean is a series of carefully orchestrated statements from key figures within the political/cultural elite. The one thing they do not want to hear about is anything from the great unwashed who live outside that bubble.
This is because the topic of the “debate” – the X part of the formula – is inevitably an issue where the views of the elite do not resonate with the opinions and instincts of ordinary folk: crime, immigration, bureaucracy, government spending, taxation and, yes, the EU.
Angelo M. Codevilla, a professor of international relations at Boston University, summed it up brilliantly in an article for the American Spectator. His premise was that most politicians in the USA, from both political parties, Democrats and Republicans, were part of a “ruling class” who increasingly believe that government is a good in itself and that more government is even better. Some Republicans (and a handful of Democrats) as well as a large cohort of people previously disengaged from politics began to feel a degree of unease with this assumption that “the government knows best”. He called these dissenters “the country class” although we would know them better as The Tea Party
“Nothing has set the country class apart, defined it, made it conscious of itself, given it whatever coherence it has, so much as the ruling class’s insistence that people other than themselves are intellectually and hence otherwise humanly inferior. Persons who were brought up to believe themselves as worthy as anyone, who manage their own lives to their own satisfaction, naturally resent politicians of both parties who say that the issues of modern life are too complex for any but themselves. Most are insulted by the ruling class’s dismissal of opposition as mere “anger and frustration” – an imputation of stupidity – while others just scoff at the claim that the ruling class’s bureaucratic language demonstrates superior intelligence. … Moreover, if the politicians are so smart, why have they made life worse?”
Putting this into a British context I would argue that UKIP is the voice of our “country class” and our party’s rise in popularity is a manifestation of rising public mistrust of our own political/cultural elite, our “ruling class”. Without our recent electoral successes and opinion poll figures does anyone seriously believe that David Cameron would be “promising” an EU referendum or that leading figures in both the Tory and Labour parties would be making noises about immigration or Islamist extremism?
I say “promising” and “making noises” because, of course, much of the establishment rhetoric on these and other issues is designed kick the can further down the road rather than actually achieve anything. It’s a sort of bread and circuses act which aims to keep us quiet until our birdlike brains lose interest and get engrossed in the next celebrity reality show.
They do genuinely believe that uncontrolled immigration is good because not only does it provide the lower orders with a rich tapestry of diversity to brighten their humdrum lives but, more importantly, an ever increasing pool of cheap immigrant labour to damp down wage levels and maintain a steady supply of servants for metropolitan middle class households in the fashionable enclaves of chattering class London.
That is why, when a Minister, MP or media pundit says “We need to have a debate about immigration (or crime, or anything else that makes them nervous)” there will always be that weaselly “but we must avoid demonising/frightening/inflaming etc”, usually with a meaningful glance towards the token “country class” person in the studio.
Until recently that was enough to kill off the debate – but no longer. It must be the number one priority of every UKIP supporter, and those who do not belong to us but express similar views, to look those hacks in the eye and spell out honestly and fearlessly (but always politely and respectfully) why we need to open up the discussion.
For we do have their attention. They don’t like it but the moment is ours and we must seize the time. Each of us must be our own John Hampden.
” but in any national race against Hillary Clinton (say), he’d be lucky to win 40% of the vote based on current polls.”
Yes, they seemed to say the same thing about Reagan, who ran (if not eventually governed) as a staunch conservative. What happened on elections day? Despite the *MSN analysis” and psuh polls having Carter with a huge lead days out.
Like I said, I got a feeling that the GOP will nominate a conservative this time around. I think they’re sick to the back seat of being told moderates are ‘electable’, only to bore the pants of everyone, keep the base from working for the candidate and on the Xbox on election day instead of voting, and lose in landslides.
“The thing about “MSM analysis” is that, in the end, it’s usually pretty accurate.”
lol, with their push polls??
Case in point: The recent VA gov race (which you were owned on) MSN *analysis* had T mac running away with it.
End? 2 points with a conservative libertarian taking 10% as a 3rd party.
“They made up their gains only because of the poor working of the ACA website.”
lol
Add 5 million losing their healthcare, even though given 28 assurances that ‘if you like your plan you can keep it. Period.’
Ditto with ‘if you like your doctor, you can keep him/her’
Obama then had to hold a big conference instruction insurance companies not to abide by the law (contrary to the constitution) and now, for a year, wave that part of the law lol
Insurance premiums ROCKETING, as Obamacare is a re-distribution of young to old. 27 years old + insurance having HUGE increases (as well as older people) to pay for the bill. However, jack all younger folk (27-35 year olds) have enrolled.
Next one is upcoming: MILLIONS of employed Americans will be forced onto the exchanges when the big business mandate kicks in .Permiums too will rocket.
To recall Cruz saying to delay ObamaCare by a year, many at the time disagreed.
Today, after it’s initial implementation with rocketing prices, it’s approval is very low. And no one argues with Cruz on it’s merits anymore.
” “Quite frankly, to be fair, I don’t think you hear responsible Republican leaders advocating a shutdown of the government,””
Indeed, so did Cruz and others. Cruz and other Tea Partiers said they do not want to shut down the gov’t. Harry Reid and Barack Obama shut down the government,
As stated, the house passed continuing resolutions to pass EVERY ASPECT of government (except Obamacare), but all remained on Reid’s desk. Hence ‘shutdown’ (of 11% – yes, 11% of Gov’t) in terms of vets pay, parks, memorials….look to the bills all passed by the house and not put to vote by Reid- to maximize the politics.
If you don’t think Obama scaremongers, campaigns etc, well, I won’t even comment.
“Incumbency does matter, but not enough to explain Christie’s additional votes, especially in a much less Republican state.”
versus token Dem opposition with low $ and an historically low turnout, on a day not to coincide with Booker’s senate race, that’s hardly surprising.
“So? He got more votes on Election Day, and that’s what counts.”
? Try comprehending.
If he wouldn’t have wasted mass $ of Tax Payers’ money holding an election featuring a popular senate candidate 2 weeks before his own, to ensure a larger margin of victory to set up a ’16 run…which has been blown due to bridgegate, Obama hug and salivating over on the eve of the ’12 election, in state tuition for undocumented persons, bernie mandoff lobbying (he of epic ponzi scheme history), and a record that is not too good when one inspects it.
” fools like Ted Cruz and Mike Lee are toxic to any political party. ”
Indeed, let another RINO who’s apparently *electable* get the nom, 5 million more are bored to death over him’her and stay at home, and it’s another 8 years of the Dems.
” That’s why Nigel’s moving against your “Walter Mittys,””
Indeed, said a day or so after a few epic gaffes of his own lol
“because having a reputation as a party full of David Silvesters ”
Indeed, but I don’t really think UKIP has a “party full of David Silvesters” lol
In addition to the below comment I just added, you commented “” A Tea Party opponent running for governor of New Jersey won in a landslide”
And I commented that I thought that you were revering to the NJ senate race. Which I disected in my commented.
However, if you were indeed commenting on C.Christie’s Gov win.
a) He’s not a ‘tea party opponent’. He is a moderate, but he hasn’t said derogatory things about Tea Partiers/conservatives. No one’s that politically stupid to completely wave off a part of a voting block.
b) He was “running for governor of New Jersey” but as an INCUMBENT. Big difference. And note that he only faced token opposition from the Dems in terms of the candidate they put up and the funds they gave her.
c) He won a ‘landslide’ with an historically low turnout.
d) On TAX PAYERS’ money, he staged the senate (by- election) race I talked about in the other post 2 WEEKS before his own gov election, even though he knew MONTHS in advance that the seat had become open.
Why waste TAX PAYERS’ money in the state running two separate elections, when and huge amount of $ could have been saved putting both elections on the same date? As he feared by putting the senate race on the same date, which featured a very popular Dem candidate (Booker), his own vote would be eaten into, with Booker voters also voting for the Dem Gov candidate whilst at the booth. Pure politics.
So, 1) He isn’t a tea party ‘opponent’, although he is a moderate 2) The landslide is not as it seems on inspection 3) We’ve since had bridgegate there, so it says it all really.
To take each point in turn:
A. Before the shutdown began, Christie said “Quite frankly, to be fair, I don’t think you hear responsible Republican leaders advocating a shutdown of the government,” That implies that Tea Partiers are not responsible people.
During the shutdown, he said “You know, I don’t think it’s ever good to keep the government closed when your job is to run the government,” He clearly opposed the strategy and those who employed it.
B. Incumbency does matter, but not enough to explain Christie’s additional votes, especially in a much less Republican state.
C. So? He got more votes on Election Day, and that’s what counts.
D. So what?
Again, fools like Ted Cruz and Mike Lee are toxic to any political party. That’s why Nigel’s moving against your “Walter Mittys,” as he put it, because having a reputation as a party full of David Silvesters will destroy any influence you might otherwise have.
You think “responsible people” must agree wit the GOP establishment? Sorry, but that’s just off. Massive debt is not “responsible”, lad.
It really doesn’t matter what blowhard Christie says. He’s a failed governor. NJ is last in about everything, on a state by state basis, fiscally and economically, and he hasn’t moved the needle at all. Check the rankings. And now he’s embroiled in scandal. He’s a typical NJ hack, it turns out, just a step ahead of the sheriff.
Christie is a progressive. That always sells in progressive states like NJ. He may be thrown out of office now, though, no matter his reelection you seem impressed by.
Ted Cruz and Mike Lee are leading the fight against the establishment GOP, and have brought on massive electoral gains, whereas the establishment continues to lose. Sorry, but the facts don’t support your assertion that they’re toxic. The exact opposite is true. Check the numbers. The Tea Party is far outshining and outelecting the establishment GOP, at the local, state and federal levels.
Oh, and Farage will be disappeared when the time comes, lad. That’s the thing about populist movements. They are organic. They just do what they do. They can’t be controlled by political hacks of any stripe. That’s what the establishment fears so badly, on both sides of the Atlantic.
Yes, and the poster’s response to C Christie spending mass tax payers’ $ staging two state wide elections a fortnight apart as pure politics- to not be on the same day/ticket as the Booker senate race and hence have a smaller margin of victory, was ‘so what’
lol, I hope the poster never gets in charge of the country’s or local government, or any club’s funds
That election was the most despicable political act I can recall in recent years. It cost a fiscally bankrupt state about $34M dollars, as I recall… all to aid the corrupt Christie in the drive for political power for himself alone.
You knew that selfish corruption would catch up to that guy, and apparently it has. He may just go to jail, if they get that witness to testify fully. It is no joke to abuse public trust as he has. It’s a crime.
And what makes me laugh is that the establishment is for C.Christie (who has too much baggage even without bridgegate), but also Jeb Bush (come on, a Bush?), Huckabee again, and even jokes of roping Romney ’16 lol
add a sprinkling of Kaisch (Ohio gov) and Mike Pence (Indian gov, who I don’t know much about).
Ryan- well, don’t even bother commenting.
Outside:
Scott Walker seems okay, but is lacking in charisma and his immigration reform position is iffy.
Rubio has loads of charisma, very nice manner about him, superb speaker, excellent foreign policy credentials….but the gang of 8 bill crushed him with the base.
Rand Paul..seen lots of him, don’t think he’d get the nom. Worryingly, I he was on Breit Bare’s special report on FOX the other week in the ‘hot seat’. He seemed out of his element when probed beyond the talking points.
Cruz..will rally the base, IQ off the charts, staunch conservative, frames arguments well in interviews, good speaker…(seems car salesman like though, which a Rubio isn’t)
And before the posters start going ‘why so much stock in charisma/speaking ability, base rallying ability?’…..take charisma and speaking ability etc away from Farage and see what would have become of UKIP over the last few years.
Presidential nominees are rarely sitting US senators. 2008 was the exception to that as we know, but I wouldn’t expect Paul or Cruz or Rubio to make it, absent a significant political upheaval, which is always possible, I suppose.
Christie is likely finished now, and the economic and fiscal news from NJ will finish him later if there’s still life left in him.
Huckabee can have influence, but that’s about all. No Bush can withstand the public’s shaking head, I’d guess. It’s over for the Bush clan and the WH.
Kasich may be in with a chance. Pence would be a solid conservative, but the establishment will reject him, and probably Walker too.
There’s no real favorite for the R’s. Not that it would matter, because it seems the favorites often go down when the primary gets going .
Paul also would have to file in January for KN for a senate race, if he chose to run again- difficult to have the nom wrapped up when only IA and NH are going in January next cycle.
Rubio has a slightly bigger cushion. State law in FL means he’d have until April of that year to bail and run for re-election in the seante.
Makes it v.difficult to avoid questions like ‘are you running for re-election’
Kasich won’t excite the base. The only thing Huck will do is erode votes and splinter the right. Huck’s played the running again game before. Huck’s last chance was ’12 imo.
If the field is barren he could get in. But I doubt it.
Cruz would be my tip right now. He’s not up for re-election either until ’18, so could run and still keep the senate seat if it all went pear shaped, ala Mccain’s situation in ’08
lol considering your comments on Cruz….{cruz} “without the brains”
Note Cruz graduated as a Valedictorian (top student) from high school, then went to IVY league Princeton, whilst at Princeton, won the North American debating championships, then went to Harvard Law School, then served with William Rehnquist of the US supreme Course (albeit a law clerk), then argued successful cases in front of the US Supreme Court as TX attorney General.
So considering the comment that [Cruz] ‘has no brains’ (paraphrased), well, it’s not even worth commenting to the rest of your remarks, given that gem.
“He and other Tea Partiers shut the US government down out of spite in October, to devastating effect against Republicans.”
again lol, Harry Reid and Pres Obama ‘shut the Gov’t down’. Cruz (and many other tea and non tea partiers) stated that they will fund EVERY OTHER ASPECT of the federal gov’t, except ObamaCare, which they wanted further discussions on. Indeed, when Prez Obama did the usual scarmongering, stating all of the servies which would be effected (and recall 89% -yes 89%-of the Gov’t remained open): memorials, vets pay etc, the GOP passed CONTINUING RESOLUTIONS to fund EVERY aspect of the Gov’t that Obama and Reid scaremongered on- yet Reid wouldn’t put them to a vote. Reid and Obama refused to fund vets, open memorials etc, to maximize the political effect. They do it all the time.
And what happened two or so weeks later? ‘If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.Period’ 28X pledge turns out to be an epic issue, with 5 million Americans booted off the insurance plans.
Next: ” the sequester that they fought to impose has been rescinded”
lol, RINO Paul Ryan traded 25% (not ” the sequester that they fought to impose has been rescinded”) in the budget deal that also took vets pensions away. Again, RINO Establishment guys.
” A Tea Party opponent running for governor of New Jersey won in a landslide”
lol a) I think you mean the Senate b) I think you should look at the ‘blueness’ of NY (granted C. Christie won a 2nd term in NY [but historic low turnout and he’s hardly a conservative]) c) The opponent was Cory Booker, a Dem rock star.
” a Tea Party supporter running for governor of Virginia (normally a much more Republican state) lost.”
a) “Normally a much more Republican state” ?? Check out the demographics- big Latino % there has grown over the years and “Normally a much more Republican state” has seen Obama win twice in a row, it has a Dem attorney general, and two Dem senators. So hardly “”Normally a much more Republican state” . Also, note that Cooch lost by 2%, and a 3rd party ran and took (I think) 10 or so %, much of which came from Cooch’s potential vote. Also, Cooch was outspent 3-1 in that race
“Congress is now planning to take up immigration measures that the House had heretofore rejected.”
Complete baloney. The SENATE bill you’re referring too (Rubio and the gang of 8) is NOT being considered by the House- they don’t want to go to conference on it, hence they are not considering it.
They are working on their own bill, which admittedly and pathetically, is supposed to hint at a pathway to legalization (not citizenship) for 11 million illegals.
a) This house bill has been talked about LONG before the gov’t shutdown b) Again it is RINO led c) If amnesty occurs, in 15 or so years time, the Republicans may never hold office again, given 11 million mostly Dem voters pumped into the electorate. But that’s a different story. d) But the House working on their own version of an immigration bill was proposed long before the shutdown.
So, in conclusion, 5 million traditionally GOP voters didn’t get off the couch and vote for Romney in ’12. There was another establishment guy in McCain in ’08 who again didn’t excite the GOP base.
I think the Republicans are getting fed up of electing moderates thinking they’re ‘electable’ when they get trouched in the general.
I think they’ll go with a conservative to rally the base next cycle. Although the establishment will do all they can to nominate another RINO who will keep many GOP voters on the couch, off the phones, and off the streets with fliers (leaflets)
” If it was genuine, they would have formed there own Party by now.”
Incorrect and you need to study US polics more.
The US Tea Party isn’t about ‘forming a party’, it’s an amorphous movement comprised of MANY different ‘organisations’ (Tea Party Express, FreeDomWorks, Tea Party Patriots, Americans for prosperity etc, as well as LEGIONS of Tea Parties at the state level) and isn’t about ‘forming a party.’ That isn’t there intention.
However, they have vast influence in certain congressional and senate GOP races. So “If it was genuine, they would have formed there own Party by now” is baloney, as they don’t wish to form a party- their non-party amorphous make up is their foundation, and their influence is felt more in races where incumbents and challengers voting or running, run with a nod to the tea party (i.e, look how MitchMcconnell [R- KN] is miraculously taking tougher stances in an election year when he’s up for re-election in a deep red state, and the challenger will be of Tea Party principles).
So ask GOP incumbents and challengers, especially in red or purple states, if it’s *genuine*
Watch the endorsement and base rallying of the Tea Party get behind Ted Cruz if he decides to run for president next cycle.
With all due respect, Cruz is a nutjob. Remarkably unfamiliar with the basic rules of Congress- he didn’t know that minority party Senators could not propose legislation on the floor- demanding impossible and illegal actions, and so hated by his own party that its members gladly dish dirt on him. He’s Godfrey Bloom, without the brains or rough-hewn charm.
He and other Tea Partiers shut the US government down out of spite in October, to devastating effect against Republicans. (The party’s approval ratings fell to levels never seen in the 75 years of modern polling.) Since then, the Tea Party had the exact opposite of their intended effect- the sequester that they fought to impose has been rescinded, the farm bill they opposed has been passed and signed into law, and Congress is now planning to take up immigration measures that the House had heretofore rejected. A Tea Party opponent running for governor of New Jersey won in a landslide; a Tea Party supporter running for governor of Virginia (normally a much more Republican state) lost.
If anyone from UKIP’s hierarchy reads this, I beg you: please, PLEASE don’t be like Ted Cruz!
Actually, the Republicans appear to be doing just fine, and are set to advance in this year’s federal elections. They’re doing fine because of the Tea Party and Ted Cruz, who would be overwhelmingly reelected if he ran today.
You should avoid the MSM analysis. They always ignore or distort what they don’t support, and they don’t support Ted Cruz. Neither does the “non-country class”, as mentioned in this blogpost, and as you mention. They despise Ted Cruz. But as mentioned, he’d be overwhelmingly reelected if he ran today. That should tell you something.
They made up their gains only because of the poor working of the ACA website. You can’t count on such an outside event to deliver you.
Cruz would probably be re-elected in Texas, but in any national race against Hillary Clinton (say), he’d be lucky to win 40% of the vote based on current polls.
The thing about “MSM analysis” is that, in the end, it’s usually pretty accurate. There’s a difference between Nigel Farage, who is disliked because he challenges old and worn-out ideas, and Ted Cruz, who is despised because he’s despicable.
The made the first of their gains in 2010, and that had nothing to do with ACA websites. Ted Cruz was elected in 2012, and that had nothing to do with that website. However, all of this did have to do with ObamaCare, which isn’t going away, and is in fact getting worse. That isn’t an “outside event”, and it isn’t going away. It will have influence for some many years, including 2014 and beyond.
I wouldn’t go making predictions as to who would do what, whether Hillary, Cruz or otherwise. Oh, and the polls show Cruz is over 40% against Hillary right now, if you notice, so your prediction is proven wrong today, based upon what we know.
No, the MSM is not pretty accurate. It’s biased and wrong, most times. You’re screeching how much trouble the Republicans are in, for example. They’re not, of course, as the data tells us, and you’re just miming what the MSM is putting into your head. And they put it into your head that Cruz is “despicable”, no doubt. Some people are just easily molded, as we know.
True, the viceroy’s gin, but the GOP being the GOP will probably end up blowing it themselves.
Obamacare is HUGELY unpopular, but rather than focusing 10000000% on that in the run up to the mid terms, they go and see about immigration reform, which will result in a self inflicted mass division in the party, on a topic that 3% of the population (polled) has it as a major issue.
That and I would be surprised that in a few winnable senate races, they blow it going on about social issues.
Well, the establishment GOP is subject to blow it, much like the Cameroons. The Tea Party is what’s brought on recent electoral success for them, but they despise the Tea Party, which is their enemy, not the D’s, who they agree with for the most part. Sound familiar?
It is that same GOP establishment that’s pushing amnesty for illegal immigrants. The people don’t want it. The GOP establishment does.
The GOP establishment loses Senate races pushing establishment squishes, who are leftist on social issues. It happened in Wisconsin last time, and elsewhere. The establishment hacks whimper about the Tea Party causing losses, but they are the only ones that have brought on recent victories, across the US, at local, state and federal levels. The GOP establishment didn’t do that, certainly. They want to do the exact opposite.
Again, this should all sound familiar.
Again, good points the viceroy’s gin
Oh look, another Alinskyite. Did you know that your hero lifted his entire 5th rule almost verbatim from Mark Twain? Like every other activist from the Statist Left, even your best was a plagiarist who could only parrot the words of better men, but what else should we expect from an intellectually bankrupt, nihilist philosophy that has no substance to offer and can only attempt to drag others to its pathetic level?
Ted Cruz is hated by the Left because he remembers what the purpose of an elected office in a Republic actually is, and that’s to represent a constituency. He’s not trying to force an agenda alien and detestable to them down their throats, he’s attempting to do what the people to sent him to office want with what he has available… and often makes the new self-appointed nobility and their cheerleaders look like exactly like what they are in the process, a bunch of out-of-touch power-hungry criminals. That makes them angry, and they can’t attack the message (see above, no substance to stand on), so they go after the messenger.
The government shutdown only failed as a tactic because Speaker Boehner and his cronies, who are too busy eating the scraps from the table of the Almighty State and being trained to beg and roll over like good little doggies decided that they would rather continue with their time-honored tradition of selling the cow for magic beans than actually take a stand on an issue that might make them unpopular with their masters for doing what their constituents want.
A house divided against itself cannot stand, and unless the leadership develops a clue, the Republican Party is not long for this world and will be replaced by something that can actually function as an opposition party.
Well said. I’ve seen the parrallels also to the Tea party movement within the Republican Party, in the United States. Some I think are genuine. My feelings on this is that the Tea Party are a kind of Judas Goat for disenfranchised voters, who might look elsewhere to cast their vote, but may be fooled by this charade. If it was genuine, they would have formed there own Party by now.
The same goes with Daniel Hannon and the Douglas Carswell’s in the Tory Party. They make a great show of being eurosceptic.”They speak in accents familiar to their victims, and they wear their faces and their arguments, they appeal to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all” UKIP people, but behind the scenes, it’s carefully orchestrated, who “rebels” and who is loyal. For they are all loyal to the party and it’s a distinctly pro EU Tory Party.
If they truly believed what they said, they would have crossed the floor to UKIP years ago and if they rebelled against the whip, they could be de-selected at the next election, but aren’t. Strange that.
Don’t be decieved by these masters of deception, they’ve been at this game of politics, longer than UKIP.
Sorry about mangling Cicero’s “enemy at the gates”
In the US, election laws vastly favor the two existing parties, and attempting to create a third party would place any group at a major competitive disadvantage for years, if not decades as it struggled to get on and remain on ballots, while the Republicans and Democrats get an automatic pass.
Though it’s a difficult road, it’s actually an easier job to try to displace the Neoconservatives, which are widely hated in the world at large thanks to its leaders like George W Bush, from leadership positions with the party structure and take over from within. The Neoconservatives, despite having jettisoned their principles in the pursuit of power years ago and rightly earned the ire of most of the American public are waging a scorched earth campaign to try to stay in power despite their unelectability. If they can’t have it, nobody can… and it’s more and more likely that the Republican Party is going to completely collapse thanks to them.