Here in sleepy Rutland, the demesne of Alan Duncan, one of the MPs on Leave.EU’s target list but which is so pro-Tory that one voter told me on the doorstep during the 2015 campaign that I was wasting my time because ‘if you tied a blue ribbon around the tail of a rat, round here, then Rutlanders would vote for it…’ I’ve started a new FaceBook Group, Rutland Brexit Debate which is getting plenty of daily attention from Leavers and Remainers alike. Providing postings and comments are not abusive, they remain uncensored otherwise it wouldn’t be much of a debate site…
One of the local Lib-Dem Councillor Candidates posted this impassioned rant by a fellow Remainer and I would rather like to post a point-by-point rebuttal and so I’m copying it here in the hope that Independence Daily readers will help me via the Comments. Thank you in advance for your help.
By Martyn Stanley writing in the group Remain In The EU – Exit From Brexit!
I wrote this as a response to Leaver on here asking how Remainers feel about Brexit. I think it was quite a popular comment and so deserves its own post. This is my summary of where we are and how we got here.
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I hope you’re not busy for a bit this is going to be long.
First of all, I’m a centrist. I don’t think hardcore socialism can work any more than hardcore capitalism. I’ve read Robert Tressell’s Ragged Trousered Philanthropists – the strongest argument for socialism. I don’t think it can work. At the moment though, we’re in deep sh*t.
We’re living in an economy where the top 1% are stripping the country bare without contributing a thing and the divide is getting bigger and bigger. The 2019 EU Anti-Tax Haven legislation might have gone some way to mitigating this.
However, when the people it would affect learned about it – they went hell bent for leaving the EU. Before it was announced the EU was mainly a political scapegoat and outlet for media racism. Watch the Panama Papers and the Paradise Papers and imagine how those billionaires that pay zero tax will feel about having to contribute their fair share.
Then there’s the disaster capitalists who stand to make a fortune out of the UK’s demise. For example, Crispin Odey made £200 million in ONE NIGHT when the UK voted to leave by voting against the pound. He campaigned for leave by the way. It’s a bit like a footballer betting against his own team then trying to score own goals.
Then there’s Putin who wants to destabilize the EU. He’s already annexed Crimea, shot down a Malaysian Air Liner, gone to war in Ukraine and seized several Ukrainian boats. If the EU falls several states will be under threat by Russia. There’s still the question over Aaron Banks and Nigel Farage receiving Russian money.
There ARE people who benefit from Brexit, but they are NOT the people conned into voting for it. Every single argument for leaving the EU is bunkum. UK MEP’s voted WITH the EU on 95% of votes. We are NOT losing sovereignty.
The UK sold its fishing quotas. The EU had nothing to do with the shrinking fishing industry and to be fair the financial sector is many times the fishing industry in terms of GDP. If we lose that but get back fishing we’ll be 1000 times worse off.
We always had control of our borders. If the UK government had implemented the 3-month rule we could have sent non-self-supporting immigrants back after 3 months. They couldn’t be bothered. We also need skilled and unskilled migrant workers. If we can’t get them from Poland we’ll end up shipping them in from the Common Wealth – for example, Pakistan. Immigrants paid in far more taxes than they took out.
Turkey is NOT joining the EU and even if they did by some miracle manage it – the entire population of Turkey is NOT desperate to move to the UK. I honestly suspect more would prefer Germany which has a long history of inviting Turkish Gaster Arbeiters to live there.
Brexit was a con, a sham, and it’s now showing. If Brexit has honestly been a good idea, It wouldn’t have taken insane levels of illegal spending by the Leave campaign, years of lies and hate by the tax-dodging billionaire UK media barons who want to keep their tax havens open and thousands of Russian Troll Farms flooding Twitter for months.
The only argument left for Brexit now we know the TRUTH, is that people voted for it. But people voted based on a pack of lies.
Brexit isn’t about sovereignty or immigration or fishing and you’re a fool if you believe that. It’s about protecting the wealth of the British elite. They want to keep their tax havens and they want to turn the UK in a mini-America, a low-rent deregulated Tax Haven on the shores of Europe. They’ll do very well out of Brexit – sadly the rest of us are screwed.
The reason the Tory party are still pushing ahead with this nonsense is that many of these tax dodgers are massive Tory party donors. They’ll be lobbying and donating because that’s cheaper than paying their fair share of tax.
Corbyn wants Brexit because he believes the system is broken and needs replacing. In that, he MAY be right, but his desire to destroy the system to pave the way is flawed.
The economic recovery of the UK from Brexit will take at least 50 years or more. We still don’t know the long-term consequences of Brexit on the EU, the UK and Western Europe in general.
What we DO know is Scotland is likely to end up an independent EU country if Brexit goes ahead. Gibraltar may well have to move to shared sovereignty with Spain to secure trade deals and we’ll probably see more pressure for a United Ireland.
Brexit is an utter catastrophe. The damage it’s ALREADY done is horrific. Over TWO years of wasted political will, arguing over how we wreck the country.
History WILL NOT look favourably on Brexiteers. They’ll be compared to the moderates in 1930’s Germany who enabled the Nazi party to take power.
Despite the complete cock up of Brexit, I’m not convinced it can be stopped. I think anyone who voted Brexit should be at the back of the queue for food and medicines as the fact you bought the hatred and lies spouted by Leave makes you accountable.
In Luxembourg multinational companies enjoy paying 2% Corporation Tax and that is due to the efforts of Mr.Juncker, now the leader of the EU.
First someone tells us the world is a bad place and it is the fault of Capital and Russia. Then we learn that fisherfolk are just a lot of grumblers and that they want the City bulldozed for a codfish. Immigration can be sorted with a nod from the Home secretary and the rest got a bit confusing.
Gerry
I tried to respond yesterday but my effort was immediately discarded on clicking on post, so I’ll try again.
The 2019 EU Tax Haven Legislation. The fact that the EU, one of the world’s foremost troughing organisations, is part of it leads me to straight away believe that it is about control and not anything to do with getting the top 1% to pay more. This is to prevent leaks like Paradise and Panama coming to the surface.
Soros also made a huge pile of money, he is certainly not a Brexiteer. There are some well heeled patriots but many more against Brexit and are prepared to spend money to thwart the will of the people. They do not seem to be concerned about any future EU legislation on tax havens.
Banks, Farage and the Russians? The suspicions alone are good enough, without evidence, for Mr. Stanley? As for Putin the new EU army should be enough to see of this challenge, and as it is being raised to see off any threats from China, Russia and America (our ally remember). Russia on it’s own should be no problem, unless Mr. Stanley wishes to join World War Three as part of the EU. It is not the intention of Brexit to bring down the EU although that may happen as a result or just anyway.
The EU had nothing to do with our fishing industry? I guess all the EU boats hoovering up our fish is just imagination.
Border controls. We could have done much better but in the future within the EU it is going to be many order of magnitudes worse if we don’t leave, eg The Global Compact.
Brexit is a con, sham we were lied to etc., and we now know the truth? No evidence or facts presented to substantiate these claims, but the narrative Mr. Stanley has as his belief doesn’t need this.
It won’t take 50 years to repair “the damage” caused by Brexit. If it had been handled properly at the start we would be clear of the negative aspects by now.
I fail to see how wishing to return power to our elected parliament equates to Nazism in any way.
Mr Stanley himself advocates fascism in wishing to apply sanctions against those who voted the “wrong way”.
I find it extraordinarily similar to the debate between climate alarmists and sceptics. One side is so far out of its head and makes all the noise and the other side, trying to debate rationally, are simply shouted down. Is this a product of drug abuse. Social workers claim extended use of cannabis causes visons of paranoia. Thsi chap sounds just like that.
I don’t know what the dangerously delusional Martyn Stanley is smoking but his reasoning borders on the psychotic. As he well knows, it is Remainers who have spouted, and still are, the most outrageous lies and visceral hatred. Brexiteers are incredibly civilised in the face of this abuse. It is the likes of ignorant and ill-informed people such as Martyn who will not be looked upon kindly by history if our not-fit-for-purpose politicians fail to deliver what the WINNING side voted for; freedom independence and sovereignty and a clean exit from the tentacles of a monstrous, imploding Federalist Dictatorship.
As for the usual insulting and pathetic whine that Leavers were ‘conned’ into voting to exit the EU, it is the intelligent and well-informed Brexiteers who have their eyes WIDE OPEN! .
-“Corbyn wants Brexit because he believes the system is broken and needs replacing. In that, he MAY be right, but his desire to destroy the system to pave the way is flawed.”
Corbyn wants Brexit because he knows that most of the things he promised in his 2017 manifesto can’t be delivered while the UK is subject to the EU’s rules and regulations, for example renationalisation of our railways, and ensuring only British contractors get to supply our armed forces.
But then again, promises mean nothing, and he’ll back staying in the EU if it means Labour can somehow get into power.
Gerry, give him the rhetorical boot.
I completely agree with Jack Thomas in that the utter nonsense spouted out with sadly typical ‘Remoaner’ vitriol should not be dignified by a response. Send him a copy of the Lisbon Treaty instead and ask how any self-respecting Brit with even half a functional brain cell can fail to be anything but fearful of the Orwellian nightmare it portends. Article 50 is the only part of that Treaty that this country should enact!
Gerry, Figures on taxation, from FullFact I’m afraid , although they are using Inland Revenue Stats:
https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/
Hi Gerry, I sort of agree with Jack although such ill-informed comment as that from your LibDum correspondent does provide the opportunity to educate others as well. I think we’ve all grown sick of hearing that immigration is paying our pensions and much else besides. That people swallowed this garbage when so many immigrants, if they are working, are on minimum wage or less and paying little/or no tax, is beyond my comprehension.
The opening paragraphs of the Migration Watch article, link below, should provide information to rebut this point:
‘Immigrants paid in far more taxes than they took out.’
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/347
Of course there is far more than the financial cost. The dilution of the native British population is, arguably, a far more serious issue. A couple of examples on my first visit to the UK for some time a couple of years ago:
– kids out in the playground at an infant school (not in a Muslim area) ; 4 white faces among a mass of brown ones.
– town centre flooded with alien teenagers when an Islamic college turned out for lunch.
The proportion of Pakistani / Bangladeshi immigrants in that particular town means that the native Brits are close, by any observation, to being outnumbered already.
As a kid on a bus in that town with my grandmother, I remember a negro getting on a bus and the other passengers staring in disbelief, even though the guy was well dressed in normal clothes. Now the invader of a different race barely warrants a second glance.
The EUSSR is about maximising profits for the elite.
By:-
Getting the cheapest labour by creating an unemployed pool of labour in poor countries who are free to move to the wealthier parts so depressing wages. A side effect is creating an artificial housing shortage so raising property values which benefits those with property portfolios.
They also don’t have the costs of training labour.
Paying the least amount of taxes and tariffs.
I’s all completely unsustainable, the wealth of the rich countries will run out, everybody will be poor. The EUSSR is already working out how the wealth of the North can be transferred to the South by control of national banks and the installation of non-elected persons in national government.
It’s important to keep/make people poor, illiterate and ignorant and thus less like to rebel.
This is why they seek control of the internet.
This is why legislation about “hate”and “equality is being introduced.
Like Zimbabwe: Socialist promisesand + inverted racism = armageddon
The last para by this remoaner is tosh; the Brexit mess is entirely the fault of the Tories.
Once we’re truly trapped and the EU shows its true face, this ranter will learn the error of his ways( provided we manage to counteract Govt spin); the EU will milk us for money like never before (which is why it wants us in), the effects of the UN global migration compact will be felt as it gets enforced by Brussels edicts and the ECJ; and he will find out how the EU is going to deal with any protestors: EU arrest warrants, the EU Gendarmerie Force and military.
By the way, a taste of things to come: the French police (backed up by EU Gendarmerie riot police?) were shooting at French yellow vest protestors like rabbits last week, and permanently disabled at least one of them by shooting him at the back of head.
A worldwide financial meltdown is coming inevitably and brexit can’t be blamed for that.
Re the UN Gobal Compact for Migration and how the UN will force this on us, through the EU see link:
https://independencedaily.co.uk/part-ii-marrakesh-what-is-it-all-about
I hadn’t heard of the shooting but it is a game changer. Police shooting (presumably) unarmed protesters requires a robust response and it must happen sooner or later as they have just confirmed that they are a legitimate target.
it was in the papers and on spanish tv but brussels broadcasting made no mention
Interesting.I’vetaken the trouble to pick up some good points for example” The three month rule ” I’m not going to rubbish it . I’ve never heard of it, It sounds like a Home Office ( Mrs May ) invention.. But anyway, The stripping the country bare is just silly, And making money from the fluctuations in the £ is also silly . Does he want to ban betting. . Anyway I can find little substance in what to me appears just a marginally better informed ( If true ) rant.
Most remainers find it convenient to forget that the EU was set up by corporations . The EU is a corporate racket the very thing this remainer is railing against. Big business and big government are in bed together to their mutual benefit to further the European project to create the United States of Europe. Both bodies find the nation state to be an obstacle to their interests and thus they have to be by-passed through an un-democratic model of governance that was purposely designed to deliver the project. No other country or countries emulates the EU model of goverance.
The EU is just another empire in the making but of course they always collapse.
The whole Brexit debate comes down to whether you wish to live in a democratic nation state or you wish to swallow the whole European project and live in a post-democratic EU governed by technocrats.
A rant indeed. I suggest the writer of it should move (I’m being polite) to where he would be more at home. I thought that Camoron’s Leaflet of Lies was bad enough but this chap has gone way beyond it!
Gerry, I suggest that you don’t waste your time replying to this fantasist.