There has been a sudden interest in hydrogen as a fuel. This is because of the need to store energy generated by intermittent weather-driven green energy generators (ie wind turbines and solar PV generated electricity). Especially of interest is hydrogen to fuel motor transport. However things are not so simple.Combining hydrogen with oxygen produces water and releases lots of energy (hence it’s use in the Saturn V rocket). Conversely it takes lots of energy to separate the two. The attraction of hydrogen is that it can be made by electrolysis ie. passing electricity through water.
Production of hydrogen is a very inefficient business, the method of production we use commercially at present is to make it from natural gas, (steam reforming) an energy intensive process that defeats the object of what we are trying to achieve and also results in massive carbon dioxide production. Production by electrolysis is even less efficient, though there is hope in more recent high pressure and temperature production systems.
Then there is the problem of distribution. There are lots of snags associated with hydrogen. It is a highly dangerous fuel. The molecules are so tiny it’s hard to keep them in anywhere (ie. they tend to leak out). This rules out distribution by our existing natural gas pipelines. The one upside is that being very much lighter than air, leaking gas tends to dissipate rather than gather in flammable pools on the floor as does some fuel gases.
At present you occasionally see hydrogen delivered by compressed gas tanker (many long pipes welded into a safety cage all painted bright red.) Because the gas is in compressed form, the pipes have to be small diameter. Other fuel gases (eg. propane) liquefy out at ambient temperatures and quite low pressure so enabling large diameter tanks. The other common fuel gas, acetylene, is supplied in cylinders dissolved in acetone.
It could also be distributed by cryogenic tanker, ie. in super cold liquid form. However energy is consumed in creating the liquid and as heat is absorbed during storage and transport, the gas evolved has to be vented off.
The petrol/diesel engine is highly unsuited for traction, hence the need for gearboxes and clutches etc. It’s one redeeming feature being the portable fuel supply. Electric motors on the other hand are ideal for traction, the downside being the source of electricity.
It’s possible to fuel both from hydrogen. The question is would you want to? We have no means of bulk manufacture or distribution. Would you want to be in involved in an accident that included hydrogen? Would you want to live near a hydrogen manufacturing or storage facility? (Hydrogen is far more dangerous than petrol.)
The very first internal combustion engine ran on hydrogen devised by one Isaac de Rivaz in 1804. He made his hydrogen by passing steam through a red hot iron pipe. He powered the first motor vehicles with his engine. It was a while before the idea caught on, needless to say. Things have improved since then, but hydrogen powered engines/cars have serious down sides. (First get your hydrogen). The idea that only water vapour is produced is a lie, they can also very easily produce a range of NOxs. There can be detonation/pre-ignition problems too. To overcome these problems, the engines must have a low compression ratio leading to poor thermal efficiency and power output. This results in the engine needing to be around twice the size of it’s petrol equivalent.
An upside is that exotic metals such as lithium, cobalt and neodymium are not needed.
Several motor manufacturers have recently had a go but the projects seem to have been quietly dropped.
Jet engines can also be devised to run on hydrogen in both liquid and gaseous form. Assuming sufficient hydrogen is available, this seems a more viable viable proposition although there are big safety issues.
Hydrogen can provide electricity via a fuel cell so being a longer range alternative to a battery propelled electric vehicle. Think of a fuel cell as battery where the electrolyte (hydrogen) is continuously replenished.
These do provide zero street level pollution though again efficiency is not high. Some fuel cells need exotic materials, others do not.
The technology is extremely complex best of luck with this link!
Hydrogen can also be used in a Direct Reduced Iron process to produce iron from iron ore instead of using coke/carbon. This lends itself to countries with no coal but ample iron. (Plus in the case we are considering plenty of wind/sunlight supplied electricity). Yes, the Middle East.
Perhaps a lighter read here.
Further light reading and something on the economics.
The economics of a hydrogen economy are complex plus there is the value of the byproduct, oxygen. It could however solve the problem of what to do with excess renewable energy.
The topic is vastly more complex than I first imagined, this article just gives a few pointers. The cost of distribution and storage would be immense. We wait with bated breath.
Photo by skidder 
I was told more or less at the time that it was chicken manure.
I Lao remember seeing steam wagons in use during the war.i think it was Sheepy Flour Mills Shepshed (?)
This is wierd, but during and after the war, and presumably because of rationing and the clampown on unlicensed cars and petrol, there were a lot ofordinary cars driving around with big canvas Bags on their roofs. I wonder what that was ?
I asked my dad ( Boss engineer at B’am [elmdon] airport with job of getting planes repaired and blood washed off ready for nest days take off ) and he said it was waste agricultural gas. And explained how it worked, and that someday it would be made into liquid or solid and dlivered with the milk Possibly using a modified milking machine ( Hilarity)
It was coal gas. The roof top balloon was filled with a rubber hose from any gas tap. Back then many fireplaces had a gas out lest for a gas poker.
Harold thank you for looking into this and sharing your interesting findings. As a result, I found something that could perhaps be commercially useful. This is not going to compete with a car’s petrol tank for energy storage any time soon but it turns out metal hydrides can store what amounts to a reasonable amount of energy. The hydrogen thus stored can be used in some fuel cells to generate electricity.
https://www.fuelcellstore.com/hydrogen-equipment/hydrogen-storage/metal-hydrides
The aluminium air fuel cell is the most promising alternative. See https://www.metalectrique.com This is not a battery. Why is this not being fully backed and promoted? Because, for vehicles, it would cancel the need for petrol, diesel – and lithium/ion batteries!
All of this Alternative Energy Propaganda, which it is of course Commanded and ‘Masterminded’ by a little sick child of another ‘liberty-taking’ Viking — leaves me cold (pun intended).
I will be leaving my entire fortune…….plus my limousine (a 1999 Columbo-style Vauxhall) to the first person who can tell me all the effects that the SUN has on our climate, and has, had since TIME IMMEMORIAL
I recall what a golfing undertaker friend of mine said to me as I carefully surveyed and pondered over (for two or three minutes, at least!) an eighteen-inch putt, for a triple bogey……….
He said……”Listen. if you worry you die…….and, if you DON’T worry, you die.
So…….why worry?
Can I assure all of the extremely clever experts, ‘scientists’ and boffins ( including any brain-damaged children) on the site – that a certain Grand Wizir, eons ago, commanded his troupe of Wise Men (con-men and flimflam men, and probably a heavy number of Climatologists ) to contemplate deeply to come up with the wisest words that could ever be uttered……….
The result they came up with?
“This too shall pass away”.
GET THOSE COAL MINERS BACK TO WORK, THE VILLAGES BUZZING AGAIN, THE SMALL AND MEDIUM MANUFACTURERS BACK TO WORK AGAIN…..and cancel ALL future (coal-powered)?………….crappy Chinese imports. JOB DONE!
Yes misterpaul5a, reopen the coal mines and/or use fracking. Make sure Britain has its own independent energy supply.
All of our coal mines are depleted/worked out or completely uneconomic to run due to imports from vast coalfields in Colombia and the USA..
It’s not possible to reopen an abandoned coalmine . It will be flooded and collapsed. All the machinery will have been removed.
And BTW would you send your (grand)kids down the mine to work?
Would they want to go?
A Basil Brush fuel. It has a tendency to go BOOM BOOM! Only an Oxford PPE would be daft enough to fall for it.
JF
You mention acetylene. Many years ago, I remember reading of a an incident concerning this gas. The tank, like a diving tank, blew up ‘took out’ half of a fair size village.
Investigations found that this was because (in simple terms) the gas can ‘rampage about’ and can ultimately go off bang.
Solution was to fill the acetylene tanks with tubes so ‘it felt confined’.
It’s only when these processes become commonplace do these problems show themselves.
Explosions in flour factories comes to mind.
Apart from the gross inefficiencies of using hydrogen making it a clear-cut non-starter, I wonder if there are any ‘interesting’ side issues we are yet to see.
Whilst typing, I have been watching three red kites, one of which seemingly fell out of the sky. A few minutes of low swooping did not catch the rabbit. Very impressive to watch though.
HYDROGEN as a fuel for transport, at first glance is interesting, possible and even exciting. – Then, quite reasonably Harold, you start to list the problems. – They cover the two unfortunate headings, of Cost and Safety ! ….. I guess it’s back to the drawing board on this !