The following letters were sent to INDEPENDENCE Daily over the weekend:
Sir,
Daniel Hannan (Sunday Telegraph 16-12-18) suggests that a new referendum would likely offer a choice between i) Mrs May’s deal and ii) a return to the status quo of EU membership. He suggests that many leavers would boycott the poll, resulting in a low turnout and a win for remain.
But that risk could be avoided if a minimum turnout threshold of 65% is applied. That would be very fair, since the 2016 turnout was 72% when 408 (62.8%) constituencies voted to leave the EU.
However, I do question Mr Hannan’s rationale because polls seem to show that the majority want either Mrs May’s half-baked option or no deal. Between them, their total far outweighs those who want to remain.
The point to remember is that she cannot bind the hands of future governments. So rather than abstain, many if not most of the 17.4m who voted to leave the EU, would likely hold their noses and vote for the half-baked option, in the hope that a future PM (with more backbone than backstop) will denounce her EU treaty and move on to WTO rules.
So even in Mr Hannan’s scenario, there would be no reason to abstain, because surely no leave voter would want remainers (such as Blair & Soros) to have their way.
In the unlikely event that Hannan’s fears do prove correct, then in a few years (after being dragged into the Eurozone, Schengen, and an E.U. Army) many remainers would likely be too embarrassed to admit ever having voted for such an outcome.
Respectfully, Roger Arthur
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Sir,
When Theresa May became Prime Minister, Paul Nuttall, then Leader of UKIP, astutely posed a question – “she can talk the talk but can she walk the walk?”. Since then more has come to light concerning her time as Home Secretary: not only did she fail to implement Party policy of limiting net immigration to the tens of thousands, but the Windrush scandal brought to light the deportation of those whom we were happy to have in the UK. Say one thing, do the opposite.
According to one report I read, Mark Carney’s policy is that there should be lots of unskilled immigrants into the UK as he sees that as a way of achieving rising GDP: GDP per capita is not a consideration. So is May dancing to the Carney tune?
Reading again the ECJ ruling on revoking Article 50 I was struck by one passage: “The court considers that it would be inconsistent with the EU treaties’ purpose of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe…” We have known for a long time that the EU direction of travel is towards ever closer union but it is good to see all the ECJ judges reinforce that understanding. Further, their ruling adds the explanation that it is the purpose of all the EU’s treaties to bring it about. So, on my reading of what they have said, the Withdrawal Agreement, being a treaty, will bring the UK closer to the EU – the exact opposite of leaving. No wonder the EU elitists were so happy when Theresa-the-Appeaser agreed to it! Say one thing, do the opposite.
But why?
When events turn out contrary to the way predicted by the person in charge and expected by those of us affected, there arises the speculation of conspiracy or incompetence. Perhaps, in this case, it is a combination of the two; a conspiracy to put in place someone who would undertake the task in the knowledge that they could be relied upon to make a hash of it until there was only time for the wrong outcome. Say one thing and do the opposite.
A conspiracy? Patrick O’Flynn has written on Brexit Central that he is convinced that “there is now a private understanding between leading figures in the UK political and civil service establishment on the one hand and the Brussels elite on the other that a preferred pathway to the UK rejoining is now in place”.
Or how about May under the coercive control of the EU? If you think this is far-fetched then I strongly encourage you to read the article by David Blake, Professor at Cass Business School, published in Briefing for Brexit. He even explains that it was Theresa May who proposed “the Northern Ireland backstop, which immediately became the Achilles Heel that it was intended to be”.
Whichever way you slice it, we certainly have the answer to the question posed by Paul. May can certainly talk the talk, but as for walking the BREXIT-Walk her destination is the opposite to that for implement the Referendum result; the circuitous route has been deliberately designed to deceive, if not by her then by those pulling her strings.
Respectfully, Alan Wheatley
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Sir –
For publication in INDEPENDENCE Daily:
Orion the Hunter
Awake early on a crisp frosty morning,
See the stars still shining bright.
Constellations in their endless journeying
Ancient watchers of the night.
Orion the Hunter is watching us.
Three silver studs in line upon his belt,
Arms aloft in action pose
In time, every empire will melt
Vanity, vanity, so it goes.
Orion the Hunter is watching us.
Search the night sky and show us where
Are twelve stars in a circle?
Un-natural form, it is not there
Worshiping it is futile.
Orion the Hunter is watching us.
Serpents have infested our land,
And the lands of our friends.
Their deceits got out of hand
Seeming to never end.
Orion the Hunter is watching us.
The thirteenth place in the Zodiac sign
Is Ophiuchus the serpent carrier.
Before the setting of the sun
As the winter solstice draws near.
Orion the Hunter is watching us.
Circle of stars like a crown of thorns,
We cannot be the unwilling martyrs
To the manic globalist cause.
Out of our hair, mad traitors!
Orion the Hunter is watching us.
We were the hunted, the intended prey
Of the anti-democratic elitists.
The tables are turning to their dismay.
Now we hunt, if you are not a defeatist!
Orion the Hunter is watching us.
Hugo Jenks
May’s “half-baked option” is not a Leave deal – it is a “Remain Forever” deal. It binds the UK to the EU more closely than just purely Remaining: turning the UK into a vassal state, with no say in how EU laws are made, but having to abide by them and the rulings of the ECJ, and with no process of unilateral withdrawal, as exists now (Article 50). So, a Leaver, given the options of Remain or Remain Forever, if forced to vote, could only ever vote for the lesser evil, which is Remain. Which is why Dan Hannan’s recommendation, i.e. to boycott such a referendum, is the only alternative.
I do not like the idea of boycotting voting.
The problem with boycotts is that there can be unintended consequences.
I was interested in Alan Wheatley`s letter, particularly the paragraph I copy below..
“Reading again the ECJ ruling on revoking Article 50 I was struck by one passage: “The court considers that it would be inconsistent with the EU treaties’ purpose of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe…” We have known for a long time that the EU direction of travel is towards ever closer union but it is good to see all the ECJ judges reinforce that understanding. Further, their ruling adds the explanation that it is the purpose of all the EU’s treaties to bring it about. So, on my reading of what they have said, the Withdrawal Agreement, being a treaty, will bring the UK closer to the EU – the exact opposite of leaving. No wonder the EU elitists were so happy when Theresa-the-Appeaser agreed to it! Say one thing, do the opposite.”
Is there an official definition of the phrase “closer union” as I would consider if there was no official description of the “end” desired then it renders the phrase so nebulous as to have a variety of meanings or indeed no meaning at all.
If there is no end, then I would have thought by definition it is unattainable and unenforceable
Would I be wrong in saying that our application to withdraw was only termed as creating a “friendly relationship”?
The electoral commission are mainly remainers and a waste of space anyway.
I understand Carney is not a qualified banker, or did I get the b wrong
Brexit is being manufactured by the Rodents and Reptile In Westminster. The deal was leave. We would have left. Brussels would have been fighting for our business. Then the scare stories started. Following Cameron’s £9million lie. There would be no 20mile queues of lorries at Dover if they didn’t let them leave the ferry. Doesn’t anyone remember. Operation Market Garden. Or The Berlin Airlift . There are still plenty real Brits left. To do it again. Five years after returning to Brussels. We will be governed by Berlin. Then aided and abbeted by their French bedfellows. We would be back to 1945 and in the New Germania. All we would be short of is Males . Between the ages of 14 to 80.
There are three ways this could go it would seem. Do as the electorate decided. Involve the Queen or keep annoying and driving the palpable anger now building outside of the Westminster bubble and leafy lanes of their own little world . The ‘elite’ may like to take notice of the comments on many boards now from people that have actually done something for their country , rather than convincing themselves that they are the intellectual elite and the font of all knowledge from the safety of their keyboards in their protected safe spaces.
Arthur Wellesley called the masses the ‘scum of the earth and also said ‘I don’t know what effect they have on the enemy but they sure as hell frighten me’ .
If they succeed in igniting that particular section of the population and apparently they are trying hard, it seems to me that they may well not like or appreciate the result and I can’t see the BBC or Sky rushing to their aid.
The Queen appears to have her own agend as it appears she has willingly signed all the treaties and agreements. Why she would have done so is anybody’s guess but explains why she has not spoken up about it but there must have been some inducement given in exchange for her signature.
What on earth could the Queen have done? We are not in KIng Henry’s times. Her Majesty is our Head of State, but Parliament governs us all. The Queen has had no option but to sign all the Treaties to which Her various Governments have agreed. In her own dignified way, the Queen has shown her allegiance to the Commonwealth, and strengthened our ties with free nations. Peoples whom all want to be friends and trading freely. No membership fee demanded. When we are out of the E.U., The Queen will be signing all our Free Trade Deals with the whole world.
Would you really have answered the call, if she had rallied the Military to rise up against the elected governments? Or would it have been a case, that people would have resented her over-riding their democratically imperfect politicians? I would take the Queen over all of them, any day.
Which is better; democracy in our imperfect Parliamentary system where we may choose between lunatic ideologues and incompetent rabble, or Bureaucracy in the distant EU system’s rule by appointed bureaucrats selected from failed politicians and civil servants with a patina of elected rubber stampers?
Surely if the we were pushed into a second referendum, the danger is the splitting of the Leave vote, if more than one Leave option is on the ballot paper. 1) Do you want to accept Theresa May’s deal? 2) Do you want a “no deal” Brexit? 3) Do you want to remain in the EU? If that were the 3 choices, then obviously Remain would be way ahead.
It is a fact that in UK law the UK is to leave the EU on 29 March 2019. If there were to be another referendum, the only possible questions would be (a) leave under the deal offered by the PM or (b) leave under WTO rules.. I cannot imagine that the Electoral Commission could agree to a third option of remaining in the EU.
I hope you are right Allan, but you`ve got to remember who you ae dealing with here, if this government is not operating as a conspiracy, as the letters suggest, then they are at least operating irrationally, increasingly clueless and desperate and perhaps liable to ignore the law