I have just watched the video showing the launch of The Brexit Party (TBP) in Coventry. None of the presentations mentioned UKIP. I think this is good, as I will explain.
However there was a question: “What is the difference between UKIP and TBP?”. In his answer Nigel said, amongst other things, that UKIP now attracted a “loutish” and “thuggish” element. This sort of language is frankly not exactly helpful to the cause of getting us out of the EU. Here’s why:
Unless the High Court declares that the extensions are illegal and that we did actually leave the EU on 29th March, we will most likely be facing EP elections next month.
This will surely be read as a de facto “2nd referendum”.
It will be a count of the votes of LibLabConSnpGreenPlaid vs the votes of UKIP+TBP.
If the former add up to more than the latter, the establishment will feel entitled to say “The People Have Changed Their Minds and Don’t Want To Leave Anymore”. They will then proceed to cancel the Article 50 notice. And we will be locked into the EU irrevocably for another generation or more.
I know that most of the Tory and many of the Labour traditional voters want us to leave, but a vote for these parties will be counted as a vote for their leaderships, and both leaders want us to remain.
Our side will not be given much air-time by a generally hostile MSM. We must not waste it carping at the other pro-Leave party. We must at all costs avoid headlines such as “Farage and Batten go to war over EU elections.”
We must use such airtime as we are given to get this message across, putting firmly into the minds of all the voting public:
“If you want us to leave the EU, vote UKIP or vote TBP. Under absolutely no circumstances vote LibLabConSnpGreenPlaid.”
Those who want to leave the EU, and who have long admired the efforts of Jacob Rees-Mogg and Dan Hannan, must realise that if they vote Tory this time that vote will be counted as a vote for the Party of Theresa May the Remainer, and a support for her policies, for her falsely-labelled “Withdrawal” Agreement which will leave us in a state of subjugation as a voteless colony of Brussels.
Indeed Jacob’s own sister, Annunziata Rees-Mogg, has realised this and is running as a candidate in Farage’s new The Brexit Party! Let us hope that Jacob, and Bill Cash, Mark François, Owen Paterson, and all the other Tory leavers also realise this and speak out to support her.
Those who want to leave the EU, and who have long admired the past efforts of Kate Hoey, John Mills, the Labour Euro-Safeguards Committee, and indeed the late Tony Benn, must realise that if they vote Labour this time, that vote will be counted as a vote for the Party of Jeremy Corbyn the Remainer, and a support for his policies, for keeping us shackled in the Customs Union, and under permanent servitude to Brussels.
Distinctions for Tory or Labour Leave voters will be swept aside as the numbers are brutally added up.
In this campaign, the essential thing is for all those Brits who want us to be once more a free, independent, country, in charge of our own affairs, owing allegiance to no other, to realise that they will have to vote either UKIP or The Brexit Party (which of the two is of secondary importance).
Clearly in the campaign between now and May 23rd, the MSM will want to get UKIP and TBP to bicker and to quarrel. If they succeed in this, if all the interviews on air are distracted into a focus of getting the leaders of these two parties to criticise each other, people will be put off voting for either of them.
So the temptation to snap and peck at each other must be strenuously resisted by both TBP and UKIP. It is a trap into which we must not fall.
We must realise that we are on the same side in this fight, just as Nye Bevan and Winston Churchill stood side by side during WWII. Nye Bevan had called the Tories “vermin”, and Churchill was a hard-line right-wing conservative, yet both took a statesmanlike stance, sank their differences, stood together for the duration, and led the nation through to victory. Only then was there a general election, where they could turn on each other, as indeed they did!
I am certainly not suggesting that Gerard and Nigel should become blood brothers. But it is essential for them and their followers to realise that their votes, taken together, should add up to at least 50% + 1 of the total votes cast, as in a real referendum, to reconfirm the referendum result of 2016.
And, by collectively beating the old legacy political establishment, to show the country, and the world, that the face of British politics is now changed beyond recognition.
During the campaign, both Nigel and Gerard and all the candidates in these two parties should refrain from making derogatory remarks about each other, but focus single-mindedly on beating the other side.
Luckily the EP election is run on a type of Proportional Representation system, so every vote counts and can be counted, unlike with the First-Past-The-Post system used for Westminster, where splitting the Leave vote would indeed be fatal.
Two Brexit parties better than one?
Actually, the fact there are now two Brexit parties is therefore not such a bad thing for the EP election. Indeed, collectively the two may well gather in more votes for the Leave Cause than if there were only one party.
The British voting public might be fairly divided into two main groups: those who would never under any circumstances vote Labour, and those who would never under any circumstances vote Tory.
With our FPTP voting system, in order not to waste their vote on a candidate who will certainly not be elected, many if not most voters will vote for the candidate who they reckon has the best chance of defeating the one they dislike or fear the most. This means that Labour-haters will vote Tory, and Tory-haters will vote Labour. It does not mean that they are wedded to supporting the Tories or Labour respectively.
This attitude (“We gotta vote for the nasty party to stop the even nastier one from getting in”) may be one of the factors that have kept those two parties going so far. However it is now crystal clear, at least to the 17.4 million who voted Leave, that neither of these two Parties are any longer fit for purpose.
Just as, 100 years ago, the Labour party supplanted the Liberal party as the chief alternative to the Tories, so now both Labour and Tory parties may be supplanted, in future, by UKIP and TBP.
During the EP election, the existence of two pro-Brexit parties may well be an advantage. Northerners who voted Labour may find it more congenial to vote for UKIP, indeed with Tommy Robinson and his appeal to the working class, and Home County dwellers who voted Tory may feel more at home voting for Nigel’s TBP. Together we must work to break free from the EU. The next month will be decisive.
Then once out and free, we can fight each other to our hearts’ content, sitting in future, I’d hope, and expect, on opposite sides of the House of Commons, cutting and thrusting at each other across the despatch box…
I hope this helps.
I used to have Farage as a hero for his fight for a referendum but no longer…… now I have put this question on a Daily Telegraph comment section and was immediately accused of being a remainer troll…..the question is quite simple….if you read the Wikipedia page on the Brexit Party it is stated by Catherine Blaiklock ( probibly spelt that wrong) that the party had a million pounds in backing to start,…..can somebody tell me where that money came from ?
Nobody seems to answer that,they seem reluctant to talk about it
I don’t know if anybody has noticed, but a good dose of bickering (EastEnders ) , of serious rivalry ( strictly ) ,or a healthy punch up ( Game of thrones ), Gets people going nicely
Farage is controlled opposition. He describes his long-time colleagues and supporters in UKIP as “loutish” and “thuggish”. Now UKIP members who didn’t vote AMW know what it feels like to be betrayed. I wonder whether anyone is going to “take the hump”, as we were repeatedly accused of doing, or just accept it?
One of Farage’s MEP candidates is Annunziata Rees-Mogg. Does anyone seriously think she took that step, risking being ostracised by her family, without long and detailed discussions with her millionaire brother? He and the rest of the family agreed to her doing that. Because they know Farage is controlled.
She used the name ‘Nancy Glanville’ until last week. Fargage persuaded her that the ‘posher’ alternative maiden name was better.
Thanks Torquil. Very well put: no bickering and concentrate on getting out the message DON’T VOTE LIBLABCONGREENSNPPLAID. I have joined TBP but I don’t hold with snobbish, inaccurate misdescription of UKIP and TR as loutish.
Thankyou Torquil Dick-Erikson.
My take on this subject is that TBP will take votes from Conservatives, UKIP will take votes from Labour, generally. Talk of splitting the vote is not relevant. Aren’t Remain votes split?
Do not think that the same human traits manifest any differently within different voting groups they don’t. Do not think that a possible EP election is about party politics it isn’t. Do not think that policies or technical details are that important, they aren’t. Do not expect ‘Leaders’ to behave in any other way than archaic, they won’t. That is how it is in my humble opinion.
The battle that needs to be fought is with tribalism, mind-set and apathy. This will be a battle that will break party politics.
In an ideal world I would like to see TBP supported in an EP election and UKIP supported in a Local Elections. My ambition is for our party activists to be open and cooperate with other Leave parties. It won’t come from above.
This is open war, break ranks and work together. UKIP may do better with disillusioned Labour voters. TBP will definitely do well with disillusioned Conservative voters.
Dig people out of their entrenched tribal and generational, trenches.
This will be a battle for minds not a battle of parties.
The one threat, the monster on the battlefield, will be Apathy.
Learn from Newport West.
Tell people they cannot hide behind apathy!
It will be more important to get people to vote than to tell them about the detail of the fascist EU.
They Know That Already!
We have to get them to vote!
Any, and I mean any, prediction about a possible EP election outcomes will mean zilch if the vote count is raised to that of a GE or the Referendum.
Thanks to Torquil’s, article of common sense, I see the potential in having more than one Brexit Party.
As we make our journey to the future, there is a choice as to which metaphorical Airline we choose to fly with, enabled by our ticket to vote. This vote is very important because at stake is the very existence of the United Kingdom and the values it has evolved over ten plus centuries.
This is Battle of Britain two. History seems to rhyme, A Battle between the Many and the Few.
These are the choices:
The Many:
Air Labour
Air Liberal
Air Conservative
Air Scottish National
Air Green
Air Plaid
The Few:
Air UKIP
Air Brexit
What strategy is required for the Few to defeat the Many???
Regarding the possible electoral consequences of the divisions in the pro-Brexit vote at the European parliamentary elections (if they take place), I suggest that this article is consulted. I enclose the link:
https://t.co/C5vcjdJyBW
Thanks for that, very interesting.
I can already see the headlines now as Farage fails to retain his seat and then duly blames UKIP. 😉
Fascinating and frightening. It gives chapter and verse in support of my original fear ~ that UKIP / TBP splitting the vote is going to damage both of them severely.
Far far better if they could just agree not to stand against one another in specific areas.
If only there could be some way of drawing that article to the attention of the Two Big Egos NF and GB .
“Out of the ashes of this came UKIP” – hmm. UKIP were actually there first…
Three woman Ukip MEPs have just quit to go the Brexit Party. Doubt they will be handing their seats back. Jane Collin’s reason was GB’s clumsy handling of the Carl Benjamin rape retort yesterday. Wonder which of the two parties will be more effective at battling against the Pakistani Muslim drug and rape gangs though? It won’t be TBP as that would be racist and Islamophobic and upset their new Tory subscribers surely.
Official comment is that they failed selection as MEP candidates because they hadn’t complied with their MEP charter commitments…
This sort of publicity REALLY doesn’t help: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/16/ukip-mep-stuart-agnew-addresses-pro-apartheid-club
Where does UKIP dig these people up from? They and the ones who select them display no basic common sense whatever.
As a tattooed right wing extremist or ordinary UKIP member,
I’ve had a gutfull of Mr Farage , his malicious rants put good,decent people in danger.
As for big egos, Farage = Mussolini.
Here’s one reason for getting as many eurosceptic MEPs into their rubberstamping chamber as possible preferably Ukip…
http://telegraph.digidip.net/visit?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ecfr.eu%2Fpage%2F-%2FEUROPEAN_PARLIAMENT_FLASH_SCORECARD_online.pdf&ppref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2F&currurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fopinion%2F2019%2F04%2F15%2Fhumiliation-eu-elections-gift-single-issue-populism%2F
They are worried about the impact on their plans to replace the electorate and federalise…
Has Farage given a single example of the alleged ‘thuggish and loutish’ behaviour of UKIPpers? There has never been a single arrest of any member at any demonstration.
Farage is clearly after the Tory vote, hence so many Conservatives becoming his EuroCandidates .
However, Batten has not attacked Farage at all, he has pointed out in responses to MSM questioning the history of FarAge’s exit from UKIP, that his party has no ordinary membership or executive or elections and that he has had advisors who are ex NF or have made anti-Islamic statements..
Batten has also pointed out that when the EUroParl President Tajani approached the Presidents of the various political bloc in the Parliament to see if they opposed a UK Extension long enough to require UK participation in the EUroParl elections Farage AGREED!!
S,
On reflection and after his Pearl Harbour unwarranted, uncalled for attack on Batten & UKIP membership it is my belief that farage never left the tory party, or he is a born again tory.
I am now sure he was acting coxswain on behalf of the tory party when running UKIP he certainly has the same mindset when it comes to PC/Appeasement as the tory party regarding islamic ideology.
Hence the clash with Gerard making a fist of the UKIP party, and then what activated farage was GB link to Tommy Robinson as personal advisor.
I see the brexit party as a subsidiary to the tory party as in the tory party MK2 that will make a great many who have signed up
a wee bit angry.
I’m becoming more inclined by the day to the view that Farage has always been a stalking horse for the establishment. Their tactics failed unexpectedly in the referendum but, as we have seen, everything is being done to ignore the result. His new party is just what is needed to divide and conquer.
Agree that Batten has kept his dignity and not attacked Nigel ….. Until Today. New video on social media today shows Batten calling Nigel and Nigel’s friends all sorts of rude words ….. and I have to say, with some justification.
Does anyone know where the Brexit party stands on May’s Withdrawal Agreement (Treaty). This appears to be worse than leaving. Also, where do they stand on freedom of movement/immigration. Given the slow-walking of Brexit the Tories are perpetrating (to say the least) and the rate at which potential remain voters are flooding in the time will soon come when Remainers are in the majority.
While there may be some sense in co-operation with the Brexit party, I don’t know what they say they stand for and regardless of what they say, how those that are elected will vote once they’re in.
However, past experience suggests that those who fulminate about ‘racism’ and talk of the far right are generally up to no good when it comes to the UK becoming a free independent sovereign state.
If they attain a majority in the EU parliament, I suspect Mrs. May will be very merry about that.
So, just to be on the safe side, I will, in spite of my lack of ta’oos, be voting UKIP.
The Brexit Party doesn’t appear to stand for anything other than personal financial enrichment for Nigel Farage and his ex-UKIP hangers on and Tory party / Leave Means Leave buddies.
Nigel and his cronies make lots of noises and give grand speeches on how they are going to ‘secure Brexit’ and change politics for the better. But I fail to see how they will achieve that by only contesting EuroParl elections.
The pro-Brexit vote is going to be fragmented, and it will be Labour that gains as a result. This is exactly what the EU will want, more ‘pro-EU’ MEPs in its Parliament. And sadly a taste of things to come in the UK…
Unless there is a factor in the EU voting system which does not amount to “divide and rule” then I find Farage’s attitude unforgiveable.
After the Thanet election I noticed he went cool. His current attitude is so snobbish as to be unbelievable. Patriots in the BNP and NF were opposing the EU long before he ever came on the scene while his nose was in the City trough. The NF and BNP were saying the same thing years ago. So,voters beware.
As a loud and long standing opponent of the “divide and rule” party system I recognise that all sorts of otherwise intelligent people think the party system is “kosher” and that all that is needed is “good” people to run it. That is b******s. and my article on http://www.craven freedom.com proves it. The political party system is the “revolution against our legal English constitution”. Continue to play that game at your peril.
Robin Tillbrook of the English Democrats has finally seen the light and realised that the law is the only answer. Don’t divide via the party system, unite behind the law.
Torquil is a great bloke but I don’t know why we are bothering to vote in the eU elections at all. At least two former MEPs have confirmed it is a farce. The only inducement is that someone wants lots of lovlely lolly in the pcoket. Nothing changes does it. Even “good” people can be bribed.
“,,,,,the law is the only answer.” Yes, by all means fight on this front but I need some persuading on this point. Is it not the case that the law is politicised and arbitrary? Did the Queen not break her coronation oath in 1972 and on every single treaty involving the transfer of powers to the EU? There was not a murmur on this from anyone apart from the anti-EU parties and movements?
Robin Tillbrook is doing a fine job but we must still fight them at the ballot box as this is the proven Achilles heel of the guttersnipe MPs. Let’s get out there are take some scalps.
If you can get hold of a copy of “The Principality and Power of Europe” , published in 1997 (ISBN 0-9518386-2-8) there is much in there to discredit the Queen.
It is obviously not good to have two Leave the EU parties. The worst scenario is that the votes are do divided that neither UKIP nor the Brexit party win any MEP’s. The answer has to be a UKIP-Brexit party coalition for the EU elections and field an agreed list of candidates. This means some people will be off their party lists but at least it will give more chance of success. What needs to be remembered is this : what are the voters going to think about the Leave campaign being divided?! It will create a lack of confidence and disinterest in voting. This must be avoided at all costs.
You’re right Anthony, but do you think the two leaders will put the country before their party? I have doubts!
Tweedledum and Tweedledee
Agreed to have a battle;
For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
As black as a tar-barrel;
Which frightened both the heroes so,
They quite forgot their quarrel.
I think we will see a few surprises in the illegitimate EU elections ( I will not participate in them, as I refuse to accept their legality ).
TBP / UKIP will not do as well as they expect. Both parties are now just vehicles for their leaders and their – often extraordinarily hypocritical or just plain thick – cronies and hangers on.
I have no faith in TBP or UKIP any more.
The MEP ‘lists’ – all COMPLETELY bent, with no democracy attached to them whatsoever, are a pathetic insult to the grounded and loyal ordinary members of the parties and to the electorate in general who have wasted countless hours and shoe-leather only to find their own party heirarchies are hopelessly corrupted.
The public will not take too much longer to suss out they have been taken for mugs either and hopefully stop funding these inadequate parasites that masquerade as wannabe politicians.
I will now continue my own resistance to the EU, and its despots, in my own peculiar way. I have resigned from UKIP, will not fund Nigel’s piss-head and flunkey party either and will fight, alone if necessary, to achieve a proper Brexit.
To hell with campaigning , wasting any more time or trying to reason or negotiate with fools and charlatans.
Interesting Mr. Bav and perhaps not surprising. Getting elected as an MEP would be like winning a substantial amount on the lottery for many. No wonder it attracts the usual carpetbaggers and, once elected, why would they want us to leave the EU?
Best wishes in your own resistance.
Perhaps you would like to have a word with Nigel then Debbie. Gerard has always put this country first, last and foremost, even allowing for the predictable nastiness about Tommy Robinson. Can you give me proof of nasty, malicious, visceral remarks made by our Leader Gerard Batten towards Nigel Farage.? Thought not. But I can give you plenty of examples of nasty, malicious, visceral, offensive remarks made by Nigel against Gerard and by association against decent members of UKIP and THE ONLY ESTABLISHED POLITICAL PARTY which can deliver Brexit. His treachery is unforgivable.
Our former hero Nigel is the problem here. And I don’t know how many times I have to say this, Nigel is only fielding candidates for MEPs – an election which may never actually happen and can theoretically be cancelled less than 24 hours before it is due to take place.
“Gerard has always put this country first, last and foremost”. So why has he twice uninvited Anne Marie Waters from speaking at rallies after Tommy Robinson had invited her?
Why, when Katie Hopkins appealed for Farage, UKIP and For Britain to agree not to stand candidates against each other, and AMW agreed, did Gerard Batten tweet “UKIP doesn’t make deals”?
Sadly I doubt that either of the two Big Egos involved, Nigel and Gerard, will read your piece, and even if they did both of them have minds closed against any amount of reasoning or advocacy of common sense.
I suspect that your confidence that the PR system will mean that having two parties pro Brexit will not result in a loss of MEP numbers overall may be misplaced : certainly in the NorthEast region, where we have an excellent Head of List in Richard Elvin, we managed one MEP for UKIP in 2014, when UKIP and Nigel were at the height of their powers and reach.
If the vote this time is split twixt TBP and UKIP it seems to me ( I v much regret ) that Libs or Tories are going to take that third seat ( with Labour taking two out of three, as ever, because of century old pro Lab tribalism ).
How it works in larger Regions with greater numbers of MEPs than three I don’t know, but I still do not think it bodes well for the pro Brexit cause that there are now two x parties seeking that vote.
Btw, please don’t patronise the working class by saying that someone like Stephen Y~L has appeal for them. We certainly saw no evidence of that in the Newport by election, a strongly Leave area.
Well said Torquil.
Two flavours of Brexit are likely to make more combined “sales” than just one.
Just one thought….
Perhaps a bit of MILD “bickering” would attract more MSM attention than a “love-in”……… ?
“Loutish” I think we can live with ….. but, for the time being – all things Islam (and TR) should be parked.
Incidentally ., the article did help .I had until today discounted the EU elections as being of supreme unimportance. But now ?
“So the temptation to snap and peck at each other must be strenuously resisted…”
Maybe GB can be persuaded but I doubt Farage can if his recent remarks are anything to go by. Farage is for the glory of Farage and nothing else it seems, despite what he says.
GB must avoid rising to that bait.
Couldit be that the leaders have foreseen this and are using the split to generate some MSM notice.. It’s a bit feeble but better than the nothing so far for 3 years
Absolutely agree with this. Whatever differences exist between UKIP and TBP they are as nothing compared to the treachery and deceit of the westminster Remain gang. We are were we are with a common cause and a shared powerful enemy. Nigel and Gerard it seems will never be mates. They should at least agree not to attack each other. I will vote UKIP but I understand TBP’s appeal to middle England. If these wretched EU elections go ahead it is vital that TPTB cannot interpret them in any way as an legitimate endorsement of EU membership.
There is no doubt that the UK will contest the European Elections. This is because the only way we could not do so is to have the Withdrawal Agreement passed by both the House of Commons and the EU. But the Commons is in recess and won’t meet again until April 23, by which time the European parliament will be in recess and will not be in a position to pass the WA by May 23.
I really don’t think that’s correct.
If she gets some version of her grotesque W A through she can cancel the Euro elections that very day or the next day. It will not need the Euro Parliament’s consent as this is already in the lastest humiliation she has begged for in Brussels.
https://lawyersforbritain.org/why-brexiteers-right-to-reject-theresa-mays-deal
So she has well over a month during which she can get something through and cancel.
To me the mood music is ( I much regret ) that LAB are coming round to agreeing her WA plus the Customs Union ( just to make it a bit worse ) and a cpla other bells and whistles and they will whip for it to go through.
Meanwhile did you notice we have just lost the last few female MEPs to the TBP
You may be right Rhyss. Perhaps I misunderstood. Thanks for putting the record straight.
From what I have seen and read, there is no way the core ERG and DUP will sign what is on offer, also the same can be said of the Lab people who are also against it, so I can’t see it getting through, unless of course they cook up some deal over the next few weeks which will write off the e.u elections, that neither the e.u/lab/con want, which would also close down UKIP and Farage and TBP. There are also the provisions of the 5 year Parliament Act which means May just can’t call a snap election. So more delay, lies and intrigue presumably,
I don’t think the Parliament Act is relevant in this case Norman. If May decides she wants an election – and she’d be pretty stupid to do that, with the Tories well down in the polls – she’d bring it to Parliament, Labour would vote for it and it would only take a few of her Tories to vote for it and it could happen.
Very “Life of Brian”: ?
BRIAN: Brothers! Brothers! We should be struggling together!
FRANCIS: We are! Ohh.
BRIAN: We mustn’t fight each other! Surely we should be united against the common enemy!
EVERYONE: The Judean People’s Front?!
BRIAN: No, no! The Romans!
EVERYONE: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Oh, yes !