(The Burning of the Houses of Lords and Commons October 1834, by Turner)
Well, D-Day has arrived. The papers are full of last-minute articles by MPs and journalists about why or why not Ms May’s deal should or should not be voted down. Theres’ nothing new there though – we’ve heard it all before.
The one item this morning which agitates the journalists and of course ourselves is how the cookie will crumble, what the votes will finally look like. It is speculation at the highest level. One argument emerges across the Leave-Remain board: if the defeat for Ms May is by over 100 votes, Corbyn will demand a vote of no confidence immediately, and an ensuing GE. Some sources in May’s Cabinet suggested yesterday (here) that she will have to step down if the defeat is too big, so Labour is doing their best to make it so (here).
One fact we can be certain of is that all ten MPs of the DUP will vote against May’s WA. Watch the clip of Nigel Dodds DUP in yesterday’s debate here, and enjoy the comments. More on all of that later – first some ‘bombshells’, one of which will make your blood pressure shoot up.
Yesterday there was a vote in the HoL on May’s WA. The result can be found on the Parliament site here where you can find the esoteric question and the names of who voted for what. So the HoL, Remainers nearly all of them, reject Ms May’s ‘deal’ and the WTO Deal … and only about 50% turned up to vote. Well, it was a non-binding vote, so why bother … but: this vote got a headline in a German conservative paper, together with a true ‘bombshell’:
“Oberhaus lehnt EU-Deal ab, Merkel soll May helfen wollen” (HoL rejects EU-Deal, Merkel allegedly want to help May). The Express reports it thus:
“If Mrs May’s vote is shot down allies have claimed German Chancellor Angela Merkel has alluded that further concessions could come forth with new reassurances coming from the EU on sticking points such as the so-called Irish backstop. A senior Government figure said Mrs May and Mrs Merkel had a “very positive” phone call on Sunday morning. The source said: “Merkel believes there is more the EU can do once the vote is over as no deal would be a disaster for everyone, and they agreed to talk after it.”(my bold)
Let that sink in!
How exactly Ms Merkel, now a Lame Duck, proposes to ‘help’ Ms May will tell us much about the EU, because they are on record saying that the WA Deal is brilliant, giving them almost all they, the EU, wanted – see here – with remarks which should chill even our Remainers’ blood:
“Brussels has boasted they got “almost everything” they wanted with Theresa May’s Brexit deal and told member states of plans to lock the UK into EU courts and rules for years. Eurocrats have said that there were “limited” concessions over the role of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in the Withdrawal Agreement and the same governance model will be applied to an EU/UK trade arrangements. […] The new compromises which could tie the UK into EU regulations for years to come appeared in the diplomatic minutes of a presentation by Commission officials to address concerns Michel Barnier had given too much away to the UK in November’s deal. The minutes suggest the UK has signed up to provisions favourable to the EU that are “without precedent” in previous trade deals. […] The Commission says that what the UK has accepted in terms of the Level Playing Field has never been adopted in an FTA before.”
Do we think that Ms Merkel will go against her EU Commission? Really? The letter from Tusk and Juncker yesterday (here) suggest that there won’t be any changes.
The outstanding Mr Martin Howe QC analysed this in yesterday’s DT (here). Describing that and how nothing has changed – the EU’s remarks above illustrate this – and quoting at length from the General Attorney’s letter, he states:
“So when we consider the last-minute letters sent by the EU to Mrs May, we need to question whether they have a legal effect which changes the conclusions in the Attorney General’s advice to Cabinet. They do not.” (My bold)
His last paragraph ought to send even more chills down the spines of Remainers and those Tory MPs who still waver about voting for May’s WA because it’s ‘the only deal in town’, as her spin doctors have spun up and down the country and the corridors of Westminster:
“Nothing in these letters can affect that advice. Regrettably, our Prime Minister is not engaged in a process of negotiating changes to her deal in the UK’s interest. She is only seeking to change the perception of it without changing the substance.” (My bold)
Let’s now turn to the nitty-gritty: the numbers game and the shenanigans. First, the shenanigans to be expected, with another ‘bombshell’ according to The Express:
“In a shocking reveal, BBC Political Editor Laura Kuenssberg told tonight’s Politics Live panel that MPs could in fact “vote on something different” as a result of eleventh hour backbencher amendments […]: “It may well be when we’re talking tomorrow night that in the end MPs have voted on something different. Because although it sounds completely crazy, amendments – changes – can be put forward by backbench MPs all the way up almost to the last minute.”
Indeed so – this is where the ‘Grieve&Cable Cabal’ will finally reveal their proposal (see yesterday’s Column), an amendment certain to get heard and voted on thanks to the oh-so-nonpartisan support of the Remainer in the Speaker’s Chair, Mr John Bercow. There’s precedence, after all … but, seeing Ms May’s take on his behaviour (here), one can assume that her aides and whips are doing all they can to alleviate this constitutional coup.
And finally – the Numbers Game! All MSM are at it, and depending on their stance – Remain, pro-May or pro WTO – the number by which May will be defeated (note well: nobody now assumes that she’ll get her deal through, after yesterday afternoon’s EU Letter) is fluid. A nice graph is in this article. While there are certain “No”-votes, e.g. the DUP and the SNP, all eyes are on the Tories. The best analysis can be found here at ConHome who have been updating their list.
This Numbers Game is important because of what will happen next: will Corbyn get his heart’s desire and a GE with all that entails for Brexit? Will May step down or will she drag on and on?
Proceedings start at 12.45pm, Ms May is expected to sum up and rally her troops at 6.45pm, voting on the amendments start at 7pm – and the final, “meaningful”, vote is expected at 9pm.
All bets are now off – nobody knows anything, and tomorrow the cards will be mixed anew.
One thing’s fersure: nothing will surpass today’s drama in the House of Commons. It will end in tears – for some. That’s my ‘prediction’. Enjoy.
BREAKING: PM Theresa May loses MPs’ vote on Brexit deal by 432 votes to 202 – the biggest government defeat in history
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46885828
This was inevitable really, but its the aftermath, and “what happens next” which really matters…
Thank God for that, but I suppose now the fun really begins. Looking at the results, the majority of Conservatives voted for May’s WA and the only reason the Labour party voted against it was because they could see a political advantage in it for themselves, the chance for an election. If it wasn’t for Labour’s perceived political opportunity, the WA may have gone through.
Lib,Lab or Con, these politician’s are all as bad as each other, I’m beginning to think that the best thing we can do is shoot the lot of them and start again. Certainly it isn’t wise to trust a Tory but who can we trust, not Labour or any other mainstream party.
The most effective thing a determined Brexiteer can do to fight back against the disgusting low life of Westminster is to qualify as an A list UKIP candidate and then be selected by your local branch as a PPC. UKIP must have candidates in place in at least every Remainer held seat but a candidate in all seats would be better of course. If there is no constituency branch it does not matter get in contact with the nearest one and they will give you guidance on procedures.
Remember Operation Foxley.
Operation Foxley was proposed by SOE in late 1944. They had seen that when Hitler was at his mountain retreat in Bavaria he was in the habit of strolling across the fields with a couple of cronies to take tea in the local teahouse. There was a wooded area close by where SOE proposed to put a sniper. The operation was vetoed on the grounds that if it was successful the Germans might put somebody competent in Hitlers’ place.
As I write it is very likely that Theresa Mays’ deal will be defeated and Jeremy Corbyn will table a vote of no confidence. If the ERG abstains this will pass and the government will fall. Even Theresa May could not continue and the Conservative party could put somebody competent in her place, probably Boris, pending a leadership contest later in the year. He could get a grip of the situation, purge the cabinet of remainers, announce that the UK will trade on CETA terms on March 30th and table and win a vote of confidence.
UK is already in CETA as a current member of the EU and Theresa May agreed with Justin Trudeau in late 2017 that the rollover to a bilateral deal post Brexit should be “seamless”. The EU is also in CETA and under “most favored nation” rules must therefore trade with UK under CETA rules post Brexit.
Before Jeremy Corbyn tables his vote of no confidence he should remember Operation Foxley.
I don’t understand how Mrs May, and this Tory Government can stand, if the vote goes radically against them. The affront against Democracy is already bad, but it would then be utterly intolerable, with very unwelcome repercussion !
One thing is very certain. UKIP was the only Party voice for leave at the referendum, without any stance in the Commons, and the vote went our way. Unless the voters revert to their ‘Tribal Way’ of voting, which unfortunately is all too possible, then UKIP could find itself pushed into power. I find this to be most acceptable, but voters will be and are, pulled away from the sensible option, by disinformation, and allow their thinking to be done by the media. If nothing else it will be interesting at a General Election, to see if the people ‘own’ their powerful vote, and use it !
In the recent update from GB:
“Contained in this newsletter are some of the press releases we have put out over the past few days. All of the major national media outlets have ignored them.”
This is a serious setback; possibly the involvement with TR has not helped. No wonder I have to ask again “where is UKIP?”
It seems pretty clear May is going to lose heavily later on and it also seems that the Deep State is already putting in place a “postponement” of the exit date.
Clearly this is to leave room for a second referendum , which would be almost impossible AFTER a technical exit because it would have to be phrased a “re-entry” referendum, which would be much more difficult for the Remainers to win.
If it comes to a 2nd referendum, I am alarmed at some people saying we should abstain from it, in a high-minded fashion, including Farage, who I now regard as having sold out .
We are FIGHTING a war with GANGSTERS. If we were in Chicago in the 1920s, I am sure Al Capone would love his opponents to just give up(as most of them did, by the way) and just pay up. But Eliot Ness FOUGHT them, and against the odds won.
Peter
Peter is right. Far from giving up, we have to fight harder..
Abstaining is an utterly futile gesture. We need every vote should there be a referendum or an election.
No giving our votes to other parties ‘tactically ‘ either.
Tactical voting is a strategic mistake.
Hear hear!!!
Meanwhile, the German government has denied that Mrs Merkel has offered ‘help’ to Ms May:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/15/german-government-denies-merkel-offered-new-concessions-brexit/
What isn’t refuted is that there was a telephone chat.
Whatever happens tonight is not final.
This war is not over until we have an unconditional WTO hard – Brexit.
I’m sure nearly all of us on the UKIP -left and right – believe in that.
NO Tory government run by May will ever deliver that. IF — and its a big if— Johnson somehow usurps May, then there is a slightly better chance of it, but, as I’m sure Russell will repeat, we can NEVER TRUST A TORY.
Even now, in the last hours remaining to the vote, expect further lies, deceptions ‘letters’ and tricks. Or even perhaps a manufactured crisis unrelated to Brexit to divert or postpone the vote.
Whatever happens, if May loses tonight I think a general election is very likely. No government has ever survived a three-figure Commons defeat.
If that is the case ALL of us have to play the cards we have, not the cards we would like to have. UKIP voters have to vote UKIP, not ‘tactically’ and certainly not on the back of any Tory tricks or promises.
That means backing the current leadership of UKIP until this fight is over. We have all had our punch ups on this site and there are factional differences—- but for now we must put them aside.. It’s wartime.
Back your Regional Chairmen and Gerard, or if you are a nomad with no region assist where you can. Get on Twitter and play with our team and not against it, and ramp up the resistance. Use your skills, your professional knowledge, your contacts.
Our weapon is our refusal. Play dirty.
Refuse to accept defeat. Refuse to co-operate with the Government if it betrays us, Refuse to pay your taxes. Do everything short of violent acts.
Tonight is not final but we shall prevail in the end.
Kevin,
I agree but when one is on PAYE witholding taxes is difficult. We can of coures try to pay for everything of substance that we buy in cash with no VAT but that won’t be enough.
We have to have co-ordinated action. One person withholding their taxes is fined, even two people, even 10 people, but when the numbers get to the hundreds, or even the thousands, the courts will simply not be able to cope. That’s when we will have won, but it all needs to be co-ordinated. Where’s our leadership when we need them?
Correct. Isolated protests are futile. I take unilateral action every time my rubbish is not collected by always putting the uncollected bags on the Town Hall steps, but it makes no difference. If 1000 people did it would work.
Cars are good. 1000 protestors switching their engines off in Trafalgar Square for an hour for example. Or near the Eurotunnel.
Tax evasion is illegal, avoidance is not. Tax returns can be late. The Revenue expects a big bonus every February. Deny it to them … at least for a while
Necessity will be the mother of invention.
Keep it legal, but be very awkward.
At 11pm on 29 March, everyone should go outside, raise a glass, stand in the middle of the street and set a match to an EU flag.
That’s raise a glass of ENGLISH wine, Ruth. Excellent idea! I’ll buy my flag.
It would help if someone could identify those businesses that sponsor Remain in one way or the other and of course individuals so we can boycott them.
Never buy anything that has the Virgin logo on for starters !!!!!! If you have Virgin mobile do not renew with them, don’t bank with them, don’t fly with them. Same with Ryannair too.
Good idea Jake
Let’s start here . A register of MP’s business interests ( a bit out of date but its a start )
Let’s pick a few fights .
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vc25yy1xYyDkTunb5mmD08k2AggMnsmMf-5rmYq8eBI/edit#gid=0
Tim Martin has been touring the UK promoting Brexit and talking about how he has stopped procuring EU beer and spirits for his pubs and hotels, in favour of UK and non-EU drinks, so now I’m devoted to Wetherspoons for life.
A good example
I don’t think she’ll go for a GE for reasons I have already stated.
But you’re quite right – the fight MUST continue.
She won’t go for a GE, but Corbyn might well force a no confidence vote. He will lose but the Tories will force May to quit anyway right after With BoJo or Raab in control the Tories would likely WIN an election, and likely get a hard – or hard enough- Brexit.
However, with UKIP causing mayhem in the marginals ( Rudd / Soubry are fine examples … ) at least we will chalk those two on the sides of our cockpit come election time and put them out of their seats.
I hope you’re right Kev. Bu how will the Tories force her to quit? They can’t have another vote of no confidence in her for another 11 months. Yes, with BoJo or Raab in control the Tories will win a GE but how to get her to go? That’s the big question.
They will bully her out one way or the other. Like I said, Refusal is a weapon.
Regarding “refusal”, I do hope you have already refused to pay the BBC TV licence.
Yes, there are many more things that Leavers can refuse to do, which would create chaos for the Government and Civil service, and which could not be ignored. These protests should be peaceful but may not all be legal. But after all is said and done, the authorities simply don’t have the facilities to imprison 17.4 million of us!
But this won’t just happen of its own accord. It would need one charismatic person to organise and direct such civil action. Who could fill that role? Tommy maybe? If you don’t like him, then whom? It won’t be Nigel – he is too pro establishment himself. Gerard is a wonderful man and a rebel, and the best Party Leader we have had for a long time, but he doesn’t have quite enough “go” about him to inspire people who don’t already know him. So we need someone else (if you don’t like Tommy).
How about Katie Hopkins? I am just throwing out names at random here.
But SOMEBODY needs to pull the sword out of the stone and DO SOMETHING to inspire the necessary level of peaceful civil disobedience to make a difference.
Hi Rabbit, Not Tommy or his thugs. Watch this. Filmed in July and starring the infamous James Goddard .
I have written to Gerard, who is a reasonable man, and confidently expect him to disassociate UKIP from these thugs.
Baverstock, every time I wonder if I’ve made the right decision quitting UKIP, I read one of your toffee-nosed comments.
When it comes to characterising people who don’t share the class that you clearly profess to, but are otherwise decent folk, you take the biscuit.
‘Otherwise decent folk ‘ You mean thugs who threaten violence (from Tommy Robinson and others) on Luke Nash-Jones ?
Since you are not a UKIP member and a fascist provocateur, I’d ban you and those like you from this site, but I’m not the editor.
Many thanks Viv for your thorough research and committment to deliver the news as it has unfolded.
The poltical class have shown what depths they are prepared to plunge to deliver BRINO.
Kipling may well have been right but the day is likely today, not when he wrote it.
http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_beginnings.htm
Well put Jack.
What an UTTER UTTER shambles and exactly what our political class has always wanted: the failure of Brexit, so that our overpaid, self important pygmy politicians can shove difficult decisions off to another chamber of non-entities and guarantee the eventual failure of Europe, with its porous borders and mostly unemployable millions pouring in to take all that we hold dear. The EU dished out 994,800 shiny new passports in the last full year of data, according to Eurostat, mostly ‘border’ countries wanting to get people to move on to mug countries with squishy welfare rules. Britain had over 500,000 new migrants last year, 273,000 net, we need to ask the pro-immigration idiots just where all these people are going to live and who is going to feed them. Amazing that the LibLabCon wring their hands wondering why we have a housing crisis and NHS crisis. Joining dots isn’t their strong point.